Episode 298: Kimberly Zajac: Creating Fun & Interactive Projects That Meet Learning Objectives & IEP Goals

Kim Zajac is an SLP and audiologist is a Communication Specialist in Norton Public Schools in Massachusetts, working with grades 6-12. Kim is also an associated professor at Emerson and is a member of the board of MassCUE, the Massachusetts chapter of ISTE. Kim shares some of her strategies for making teaching and therapy sessions more inclusive, interactive, and engaging for all students!

Before the interview, Chris and Rachel discuss some takeaways from ASHA 2023, including increased discussions about  MTSS in school districts. Rachel shares about a session by Tiffanie Joseph (nigh.functioning.autism) that was a highlight, as well as some of her takeaways from that session!

Key ideas this week:

🔑 Kim takes a student-driven approach that addresses the student’s goals, but in a more experiential way, such as creating a board game with a group to work on things like grammar and higher order thinking.

🔑 Students often are more motivated to work in class when they have an authentic problem to solve, and it often helps students to reflect on themselves and their future in ways they would not with a more abstract question.

🔑 Kim uses self assessment rubrics to help students keep track of the goals they are working on. Sometimes, when they have the skill mastered, Kim will add a group mate for the student to track as well. She will also use rubrics to grade the projects the students create.

Links from this week's episode:

MassCue - masscue.org

Vocaroo - https://vocaroo.com/

Adobe Firefly - https://www.adobe.com/products/firefly.html

MidJourney - https://www.midjourneyai.ai/

BlueWIllow - https://www.bluewillow.ai/

Dall-E 2: https://openai.com/dall-e-2

Gimkit - gimkit.com 

Kahoot - kahoot.com

Innovator’s Compass - innovatorscompass.org

Mary Howard: ChatGPT Guide for Educators - https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/200832186-the-chatgpt-guide-for-educators

Donnie Pearce: Tips for Integrating AI in the Classroom - https://www.amazon.com/50-Strategies-Integrating-into-Classroom/dp/B0C5G74W4N

Transcript of the Episode

Please Note: This transcript was generated using speech recognition & AI tools; it may contain some grammatical and/or spelling errors.

00:00:08
Welcome to Talking with Tech and my name is Chris Bugaj and I'm sitting here at ASHA 2023 with.

00:00:14
Rachel Madel.

00:00:14
How's it going, Rachel?

00:00:15
It's great, Chris. I'm so excited.

00:00:17
So here we are at Asha. It's our only day here. Like we came in it for a one day pass. One day I had two presentations, one with you, right, which we're about to do or like sitting here just before about go do the coaching one. How has Ash have been for you?

00:00:31
It's been awesome, Chris. We've like just we came real fast. We did the whole day today and we're leaving tomorrow. But we've saw we've seen so many people and it's been so fun and I saw some great sessions, got some new interviews lined up for the podcast. So yeah, it's been a great, a great day.

00:00:49
It's kind of a whirlwind, right? I mean, we spent some time walking around the vendor hall going to see people that we know and you know over the years made relationships with. Then we also went down to the poster sessions and sort of supported. A lot of the poster sessions are done by grad students, right? So support their their efforts in the research.

00:01:06
And then I think I know one of the sessions that I had some takeaways from was the one of the MTS. It seems to be a thing that there were multiple sessions on multi tiered system of support in school districts which of course is sort of aligned with the specific language system first approach. So it was exciting to see like packed rooms of people thinking about how to organize their instruction and their resources in a tiered in a tiered format.

00:01:31
Yeah, I had the pleasure of seeing Tiffany Joseph, who some of you guys might know on social media as 9 Functioning Autism. So Tiffany is a part time autistic AC user and boy were there some takeaways in that session. I went up to Tiffany after her session and I mean said you did an amazing job. It also was like, you have to come on the podcast and her and I had been messaging prior to this week because she's been on my radar for a while. But we're definitely solidifying that interview just because, wow, like, so many amazing takeaways from that session.

00:02:09
Can you think of like 11 big one that just jumps in your mind?

00:02:12
One of my favorite parts was this analogy that she gave of a car and how, you know, being autistic and having some challenges with dyspraxia and motor planning. You know, it's like being in a car that's, you know, not reliable. And so you're trying to turn the steering wheel left and it goes right. And, you know, sometimes you're trying to hit the brake, but you hit the gas. And I just thought it was such a beautiful analogy as to what are autistic students experience sometimes when it comes to accessing their verbal speech.

00:02:46
Which of course we know is why AC is so powerful. But I just thought the way she explained that and that analogy that she used was just so powerful. And I'm definitely going to have her explain that again in more detail when she's on the podcast.

00:02:58
Excellent. Looking forward to it. All right, I guess we better head over to our session. Let's tell you about the interview today. So the interview today is with Kim Zajac, who is a speech language pathologist actually here in the Massachusetts area.

00:03:11
And we talk all about, well, her and I have known each other for years, but we actually saw each other at the ISTI conference. So we talked about that experience and some of the work that she's doing around edtech. So enjoy this interview with Kimberly Zajac. Hey Rachel, guess what we're headed back to?

00:03:37
We've.

00:03:39
Been doing this now for a couple of years and it's always super fun time. It's a great experience and so this this is a whole what a whole day together doing a pre conference I.

00:03:48
Love our pre conference Chris. It's just like such an amazing group every single year and every single year it's totally different. I feel like it's never the same day twice and just full of tons of fun activities and lots of engaging conversations. And by the end of it, we're all like BFFS and it's so much fun.

00:04:07
So if you're interested in attending, check us out at atia.org, find the Pre conference link, find us & up and we'll see you there. Welcome to the Talking With Tech podcast. My name is Chris Bugaj and I'm here with Kimberly Zajac. Am I saying your name right?

00:04:32
That is correct. Thank you.

00:04:34
You go by Kimberly or Kim. How? How should I address you?

00:04:38
Kim's fine.

00:04:39
Kim Well and you and I have met many, many times in person, but it's often like in quick passing at a conference, You know, I feel like we've got to know each other a little bit through Twitter now X and then anytime that we've met beyond that, it's been, you know, a quick five minute or less conversation like, hey, I like your work, I like your work and it's like we have to get together and talk more. And why not just do that on the podcast where everyone, everyone else can benefit from it as well?

00:05:08
I could not agree more. We are definitely ships in the night at times and lucky to grab a couple of minutes here and there at different events. We're both attending or speaking at or or contributing to. And so, yeah, I'm really excited to be able to share this time and space with you this morning and talk about the work that we do.

00:05:28
So let's talk about that. So let's tell people a little bit about who you are and what you do.

00:05:32
Sure. So my name is Kim Sajak and I am a Speech and language pathologist. I am also an audiologist. I hold a dual degree, which is kind of like being a Unicorn in some ways. I think there are less than 800 of us in the entire country who were crazy enough to pursue 2 channels of communication.

00:05:53
And so a lot of times I'll refer to myself as a communication specialist because I don't always like to to align to just one channel, you know, to think inclusively, right? And so my current role as a communication specialist is within the Norton Public Schools in Massachusetts, where I service students in grades six through 12 in the secondary education circle. And the students that I work with range in terms of who they are, their interests, their skills, you know, the directions and visions they have for themselves As for life and as learners. And I also enjoy working with the educators that we are all connected with. So I have a lot of opportunity there to learn and grow with people, which is a real pleasure.

00:06:50
The other thing that I do is I sit on the board of Massachusetts Computer Using Educators organization which is an affiliate of SD. And the work we do there is to provide space for educators of on all levels to connect, to be educated and inspired and to just grow circles of of communication and collaboration to serve our students in ways that leverages technology and creative, innovative ways to provide access, equity and inclusion opportunities and experiences. I have another hat that I wear. I wear a lot of hats. I need a bigger closet.

00:07:38
I'm also an affiliated faculty member at Emerson College. I will teach their virtual practicum course. And so that's been interesting for me as well because I've got to use technology, educational technology in ways that connect to higher education and pre service process of growing into speech language pathology clinician, the future if you will of our field. So yeah that's sort of who I am in a quick nutshell. I'm also a mom to two teenage daughters one who's going off to college soon.

00:08:18
So my world is a very busy place.

00:08:23
No chance that that daughter is going off to Virginia Tech.

00:08:26
She is not going off to Virginia Tech, but she'll be nearby at University of North Carolina at Wilmington.

00:08:32
Oh, really? OK. So it is you're driving down the 95 corridor to to drop them off?

00:08:37
Yes, yes. So making the voyage, some of us are driving, some of us are flying and the that's the wonderful thing about being East Coast is that there are options and depending on what's available and what makes the most sense at the time, that's what we can do.

00:08:56
Awesome, awesome. That's super exciting. I didn't. I guess I didn't realize that we have kids in similar ages, 'cause I have two kids as well. One off to College in literally a few days, and then so we're all kind of freaking out around here about how that's going to change.

00:09:09
Seems like you're in the same boat there. But let's talk about your work. Let's start with Mass Q just real quick because some of the things you were saying were really resonating with me in the work that I've had the great opportunity to participate in with Visti. So Visti is the Virginia Society for Technology Education. And so if there's this International Society for Technology Education, then so that's like the big organization.

00:09:37
There's a state level organization across the United States. Yours is mask, you Mine is VISTI, and they seem to have similar missions as far as sort of understanding that we need to bring inclusive practices to the forefront of of every educator. Is that fair?

00:09:56
Absolutely. That is the target is to to really provide access to all educators to grow and learn and be really at the front of understanding what the different tools and resources are that are available which are ever changing. Which is why being part of an organization such as VISTI or Mass Q or VISTI, the the overall umbrella organization is helpful to to stay current, to be in in the know of of what the new ways and practices have grown to become.

00:10:29
Well, and I would add that sometimes I feel, I don't know if you feel this way. I'm going to say how I feel and then see if you can relate to this or not. I feel a little frustrated with myself because I often find myself in an echo chamber when I'm doing presentations or I'm invited to come someplace where it is. It's it's people that already align with my view. You know, I'm not.

00:10:52
I might be moving the needle from someone from who's already an 8 to a nine, you know what I mean? As opposed to someone who's A2 to A7, you know, because I'm not I also, I'm not not in the right room, like because these are not the educators. These are not the educators that need to learn about this. They're already going to move in this direction. And I'm going to help them along, sure, and they're going to help me along.

00:11:14
But how do I get to the person that does not have this inclusive mindset yet? And you said you do like some professional learning and you do speaking engagements. How? What are your feelings about that?

00:11:23
I agree. I mean, I think that there are those early adopters who are always going to show up because it's it feeds sort of their interest in what they're already doing. It validates and teaches new ideas and then yeah extending and casting the net a little broader to include maybe those who are interested but maybe a little hesitant or I think for me personally when I'm presenting PDI noticed that there is a a majority of special educators in the audience and a lower number of general educators in the audience. And I would love to see that become more balanced into to shift because all students are our students for all teachers, right. And so finding ways to encourage that participation and make the access and the understanding for why it would be value added to attend PD that targets inclusivity through the use of things like say assistive technology and and just educational technology in general, I think is an important step for us to try to figure out.

00:12:32
I think a lot of times people will ask like well that sounds like a great course but I I don't work with students who use that kind of technology or I teach content. Why would I need to go there? And so just the backdrop of educating and helping people see the value and how it how it'll help their students, but also there's a value added benefit for the educator as well. We are all learners, right. And so and we as the educators are the designers of the learning experiences that we present to our students.

00:13:08
And so if we create them in a way and design them in a way that can meet the needs of all and have sort of a system of of pulleys that can either increase or decrease what is needed to make that possible, then the end product or the end experience becomes a more fluid process that's been designed for ahead of time and with adjustments made along the way, which in the end we see more positive outcomes, better learning, deeper learning and happier students who feel good about who they are.

00:13:43
And I feel like the leadership in Visti and it sounds like the leadership in Mass Q sort of realizes that like we help everybody if we focus on these sorts of strategies and tools and interventions. So let me ask, how did you get involved with Mass Q? Is it something that you had to go kick down the door or are they looking for you? What was the Tell us the story.

00:14:02
OK, so the the story is that actually my oldest daughter, the one who's going off to college, she was in fifth grade at the time, and she had a teacher by the name of Reyna Friedman. You may or may not have met or known of Reyna, but she's a very big proponent of inclusive teaching and learning and the use of educational technology in the process of of pursuing those things. And so my daughter learned a lot about using technology as a part of her learning process by being a student in Reyna's classroom. And at the time, I believe Reyna was president-elect of Mass Q. And so you know we just got to talking.

00:14:44
As a speech pathologist, I've always been very interested in technology for assistive technology access and and you know creating better ways forward for students as well as augmentative communication for non verbal and mixed verbal students. And so she, she explained to me what the organization was, what it, you know, how does it work. And I decided to pursue membership and I started a special interest group. At the time it was called the SLP and Special Education special Interest group. We've now shifted that name to inclusive learning, special interest group to be more inclusive of all educators.

00:15:27
And so that's how I got connected to Mass Q is really through experience, through my own child and the teacher she had. And then I started my own journey with Mass Q and my own professional journey of trying to provide the same inspiration for other educators and parents.

00:15:47
Well, I think it's working. Let me ask you, well let me say this that this podcast is primarily about augmentative and alternative communication, right, with the larger theme being inclusive practices. And so I hope someone listening right now might go well. OK, Chris is doing stuff in Visti and Kim is doing stuff in mass. Q What's my state organization and what is their inclusive practices or inclusive initiative look like?

00:16:15
And maybe that's my thing this year. Like maybe that's what I should go and and and get more people include myself in their work so that I can include more people in our work.

00:16:26
Right. Get those conversations started and get those groups and gatherings together, because it's really just about getting started. There's no road map, there's no requirement, there's no obligation. You can just take it and use that as a resource, as the network to bring you the to the places you want to go and to ask questions that you are looking for answers and really just, you know, expand the possibilities for that beyond what's you know right in front of you or even in your own district. It's it's helpful to hear other perspectives.

00:17:06
It's helpful to hear what's worked for other people. Many times the questions we're asking or the challenges we're trying to figure out, I have already been managed or or been a a situation somewhere else and people can tell you their story of what? How they how it was for them, what worked, what they maybe would do differently, what didn't work, what failed. All of those stories are so important to be able to hear and share.

00:17:30
Alright, Speaking of what worked, so your day-to-day job where you spend most of your time, you know the hours that in the week is at that that that job from 6th from you said 6th through 12th grade. Did I get that? Yes. And you do some really innovative therapy and work with the kids and then work with the educators. So let's talk about that because I feel like that's also what you then present about, right, Like your stuff that works for me and then I'll just tie one last thing in here before I let just let you think on that for a second.

00:18:02
The last time you and I saw each other in person was at the ISTI conference and I was at the Dungeons and Dragons session that they had these two guys put together and you come rolling in and I'm like, Oh my gosh, there's you. And and talking about doing like role play, you know, role-playing games, which everyone who listens to this podcast is like, oh, here's Chris talking about Dungeons and Dragons again. But I was like, see, look at other people are showing an interest and tell me wasn't that like a super fun session?

00:18:30
It was so fun. It was my favorite session, actually, of I think, the entire conference.

00:18:35
Yeah, mine too.

00:18:36
Right. Because it pushed my learning and it was so experiential and also there was sort of a sense of community. But like, that's hard to imagine that you shared, what, 60 minutes or 50 minutes with a group, but you felt like a community really quickly. And to me that's a real, like important jumping off point for any work we do in schools and in particular when we're doing work that relates to communication, right? Is knowing where you are, who you're sharing space with, and being able to use opportunities within that to practice skills, strategies, and to also, in the big picture, feel good about and get joy and benefit for as a as a human being from what the work is that you've done?

00:19:27
Right. It makes school fun. It makes school social. It makes. And those are skills that people need to learn.

00:19:33
So tell us about some of the awesome stuff that you're doing.

00:19:36
So, OK, my approach to speech and language service in the secondary level is not like what most people think it might be, right? So sometimes people hear, oh, you're a speech and language pathologist, you work on the sounds and you do cards and worksheets like there is a time and place for those. It's not to say.

00:19:59
19851985 That was the time and place. I'm kidding. I'm kidding.

00:20:05
Right. But like, yeah, like sometimes we need to refer to a visual or card or a for sure a a worksheet to jot down and make our thinking visible before we can work with it sort of as an oral process or a cognitive process, cognitive linguistic process. So my my approach is experiential and very student driven. So if we're you know, of course we we work on the goals that are outlined in the IEP so that each individual students needs are being met and overall you know goals of groups are being met. But the way I get there is usually through not worksheets and not cards and not sit and deliver sort of things.

00:20:46
So we we get on our feet and we do things and we. So that might be in the process of building a board game, right? So we may be working. I may have a group working on social communication skills. The ability to collaborate.

00:20:59
The ability to share ideas, to receive ideas, to give and receive feedback. To make inferences, to make predictions. To be able to make in process corrections or edits to one's thinking or written or oral expression. To align to right the rules of syntax and grammar. Using target vocabulary that ties to curriculum, using eye gaze, Using bodies facing each other, Using facial expression and tone of voice that are aligned to creating a comfortable environment for all.

00:21:45
And so we, you know, might use the process of creating a board game to target all of those skills in very sequential, intentional steps. So the board game does not get created in one session. That is something that takes, you know, it could take the entire semester, it could take longer than one semester. It's OK. We we are.

00:22:05
We're always hoping to be finished by the end of the year. So we can, we have an end product that we can then execute in a social way and invite people to come to our unveiling or our reveal, which is opens up more opportunity again to how it assimilates real world community interactions. We host events, we invite people, we tell them the important things of where, when, why, what to bring. We then bring them into a space and they can practice, you know, welcoming people in explaining rules and then the actual gameplay, balancing emotional regulation, excitement, communication, social expectations and also processing reflection and iterative thinking through gameplay. And coming out on the other side of it, having enjoyed it and had it not feel difficult, but to have felt like a supported I planned for this experience.

00:23:09
I was ready for this. So that's one example, right? So board game development. I'll also use use podcasting as an opportunity to build speech, language skills, the ability to work on executive functioning, pieces of planning, communication, as well as if we're working in partners, the social communication and the collaborative process. So those are two examples.

00:23:36
Well, let me just can I reflect on those two for a second. Let me just say a word that I didn't hear you say, but I connected both of those is authentic, meaning the kids aren't have an authentic audience that they are working for. We're going to make this game and we're going to actually play it with others. And those might be who? Who?

00:23:57
Who are they? Who are they making it for? Could it be anybody to play the game? Are they making it for a particular age group like we're working? Since you're working from 6 to 12, is it.

00:24:06
Hey, we're I partner with the elementary school. We're going to go down there and show the 2nd graders how to play this game. Or is it like, no, the assistant and principal and a group of high school kids or like or all of the above, Chris, we've done both or we try and make it both. You know, how does it all work?

00:24:24
I leave it up to the students, so it's very highly student driven and they make the decisions together with sort of a scaffold provided by me. And I will. You know, if they're, if they're sort of in a stuck position where there's two opposing opinions, I will ask questions to push their thinking and I've never needed to make a decision for a group. They always arrive to their their collaborative, agreed upon decision, which is really important for middle school students or anti school students because there's a big shift when you leave elementary school and you enter secondary. There's so much more group work.

00:25:00
There's there are labs there. You know, lunch is not just with your people that you sit with in class all day long. And so there's many more opportunities for challenges to arise where collaborative decision making needs to happen. And if a student has weakness in that area, right, of making collaborative decisions or communication or any emotional regulation that can cause withdrawal. That can cause students to then not participate in things.

00:25:30
And then we are losing opportunities to either build skills that are there but just need to be boosted and practiced. Or if it is a lagging or an absence skill, showing the way of how and building it from the ground up and then also building an awareness of self for using skills or needing to use skills. One thing that I did in with one of my board game groups this year was I gave them sort of like a self-assessment rubric. This was their second round with me creating board games. And so I said, OK, now I want you to be in charge of yourself and I want for you to notice when you're using these five skills within the context of working on building your game today.

00:26:13
And so they would need to give themselves check marks if they did use it. And I was also keeping my own and we would do a compare and contrast. What did you see? What did I see? And then we leveraged it even higher when they got, they all got very good at that and were highly accurate.

00:26:27
I said, OK, so you don't just communicate with yourself, you communicate with a group. So now I would like you to keep track of yourself and a group mate and I want for you to see and aim to have balance with the social communication behaviours that you're using and be sure that it's not just one over the other, right? That you're you're sharing this opportunity and experience equally, as equally or as balanced as possible. That was super cool. It opened up a perspective that they never had thought of.

00:26:59
They were like, this is really cool. Like, I noticed I did all the talking. I did not give John time or even like a minute to talk. And I was like, OK, so I I noticed that, right. How can we, what can we shift to, you know, differently and don't you know it?

00:27:19
The shifts would happen and they were proud of it. The eye contact like the, you know, middle schoolers. So they like to do, they're they're fine. They they don't need me. Although this one particular student was actively really trying to do what he was charged with as a task or a challenge.

00:27:35
And he did it. And then I looked out of the corner of his eye at me and kind of smiled. And I said good.

00:27:41
Job, that's growth. That's growth. You just recognize growth in yourself.

00:27:45
Right. And that's.

00:27:46
So.

00:27:47
Important. It's so important, especially with our students who have maybe were in up middle or upper elementary school during the pandemic when things shut down and opportunities to grow these sort of self assessments and ability to even even to grow the skills themselves when absent. So yeah, it's been great.

00:28:09
Yeah, what I found with the pandemic, tell me if this aligns is that it's they might not have had as many opportunities to have reflective questions asked to them where so that they could get feedback on the decisions they made. Because I I totally agree with you, like the way students will learn with the way kids people will learn to make good decisions is by having opportunities to make decisions. So if if educators are just always making the choice for you, do this, do that, follow along here. You don't get a chance to make a mistake. So with the pandemic, OK I might be making mistakes but I'm not getting feedback on how what I do differently and or even not this feedback like hey you should do this.

00:28:57
No one's asking me the questions or I'm getting less opportunity to ask what of someone asking me a question. So I'm getting less opportunities to reflect on my decision making.

00:29:06
Right. Or I'm assuming that I'm that the decisions that I've made are the best ones I could have made, right. We're just assuming. Well, no one said anything must be OK. Yeah.

00:29:17
And that's just there's nothing that, you know, could be done about that. The, you know, world shut down people. Teachers were not able to be in classrooms with their students. Parents were at home with their students, but needing to be on a computer to do their job. And so there was a lot of independent learning time maybe handed to students who were not developmentally in a position to really use that productively.

00:29:41
I didn't know the conversations go this way, but I'd also say there were some I I well, I asked do you know some learners that actually did better Because now they had more independent learning time and it wasn't as structured as and there wasn't people telling them that you see you nodding.

00:29:57
Yes, I definitely have had that experience. In fact, even one of my own children did better with some of the pieces of, you know, the digital or you know, online learning. That was part of the pandemic experience, I think for students who who might have challenges around like anxiety or even just benefit from having more control over the pace of things at that asynchronous piece and having just a little bit more flexibility on when assignments might be due or how how they were broken down into individual pieces to get to the larger sum was really helpful.

00:30:35
Yeah, I think it has to be a take away whenever there's a conversation about the pandemic because so many people are immediately put it in the bucket of, well, that was all bad and kids missed out on so much. And I always like to in the same way that you were sort of balancing out kids taking turns. Well, yes, but there was some things we learned from that pandemic and that is flexibility is key. You know for some kids it worked better. So let's like you just said the the, the asynchronous be in control of your when you want to work on certain things and that that that all worked better for them.

00:31:09
So let's give them more flexibility. Is that a?

00:31:10
Fair, definitely. And and oral presentations too. I feel like kids are more excited to share their screen and talk through what their learning product is more so than standing at the front of the room to do the same pretty much task but just in physical form, you know and I can say like I can understand that. I mean I I present all the time. But you know there is something to be said, there is like AI think because we can only see our screen and not everybody watching us.

00:31:40
It reduces the the demand on the capacity of our cognitive and emotional system to, you know, self monitor and be feeling things while you're also delivering and sharing things.

00:31:51
For sure. For sure. So you mentioned podcasting, Of course my ears picked up for that particular. So tell us a little bit about that because again, I feel like that is an authentic task like we're building something for someone else. So that often again, my experience is I'm a big fan of project based learning, have some sort of authentic task that that learners themselves choose.

00:32:15
And so tell us more about your podcast. Are they sorry? Tell me about tell us about their podcast and how how it came about, what they like to talk about the the the the the, the growth that they've had, share all the things.

00:32:30
Sure, Yeah, I agree with you. The authentic learning experiences are really key because it provides students that ability to sort of build their own learning experience with guidance and support and it also at the same time or at least toward the end of what the authentic experience is build application, right. So often times we we target skills and we try to build skills and strategy use. But it's you know sort of like splintered and separate and it's like we have to create sort of opportunities for the application and transfer process to happen. With building a podcast we can outline sort of like OK these are the skill areas that we are you know needing to work on.

00:33:12
Maybe it's developing vocabulary. Maybe it's increasing the length and complexity of age, age, expected grammar and syntax. Perhaps if there's even a little bit of reduce your rate so your your speech is fluent, involved and turn taking right, don't take all the turns, don't do all the talking. And so we talk about what the, the goals are upfront and then it becomes, OK. So here are some choices.

00:33:39
Do you want to build a podcast? Do you want to build an infographic? Do you want to do a role play, recording a video? OK, some pick the podcast. And I love the podcast because I think it's a really awesome iterative experience that you can, you know, take in small steps.

00:33:54
So then it becomes, OK, you know, are you familiar with the podcast? Most kids are now. But if not, we look through, we listen to podcasts, experience podcasts, rape podcasts. What did you like from the ones you listen to? What would you like for yours to include going from everything from entry music to what is your topic?

00:34:14
So they give one example. This year 2 boys I was working with. They were a small group and working on basically some of the goals that I just mentioned before and they chose their topic. They wanted to talk about the concept of being hangry. Middle school boys get hangry and the 8th graders in my school, I I think that the 8th graders eat the middle lunch.

00:34:37
So it's like not super early in the day. So there's some time for them to work up to this hangry. So not all the time, but sometimes and almost always by the time school is over. And so that was their topic. And then they learned about scripting, right Drop.

00:34:53
How do you make a script? And so we talked about the brainstorming process, and it provided an opportunity for visualized thinking and using idea, you know, kind of like hub and spoke thinking. And both of them at the, you know, contributing to the same piece of paper and looking at it from different perspectives. From there, working on, OK, what are the sentence structures? What, what do we want to target?

00:35:19
What are our and what is our vocabulary that we are trying to increase? And so we'd have like a word bank and together on through Google Docs they would create their script and use that technology to identify spelling errors, grammar errors and be given opportunities to make choices about how to self correct that. They did research, right? So within the script we we used a rubric to also guide what the content of the the podcast would be. And so it needed to be fun, exciting, meet the needs of the audience.

00:35:53
Like their target audience was middle school students and for this particular group, some of the administrators and teachers that they have and then research, right. So having evidence to to back up what you're saying. And so they they did all of those pieces, created a script, they recorded it and then they listened to it and while they listened they also were reading. So they were multi sensory and thinking about the rubric and making decisions about what would they go back and change, what do they need to add, what needs to be taken away or or shifted pertaining to the goals that we identified at the beginning. And then we've had a final recording.

00:36:36
They gave it the seal of approval and then we went on to the social piece of hosting A reveal party. It actually was a reveal party and a taste test because they wanted to invite people to help to vote cast a vote to decide which of the recommended snacks for battling hangry was the best. Right, So.

00:36:57
But what one tell us I'm done?

00:36:59
Oh my gosh. So you won't believe it, but actually the blue Takis.

00:37:03
Oh yeah, Blue Takis.

00:37:05
Blue Takis won. I'm pretty sure it's because they were that like the hottest and chips. But they're they're yeah. Other other honorable mentions included, well, Flaming Hot Cheetos and, Oh my gosh, a a particular energy bar. I think it might have been a kind bar.

00:37:28
A kind bar. Those are super popular in in our neck of the woods as well for this, particularly that age group.

00:37:36
Yes, but one of the goals and for and for both of the students was well also we would like more options to deal with our hangry. So we're looking forward to getting our driver's license so that we can then drive to stores to get whatever the, you know, the snack of choice might be for battling the hankers.

00:37:52
Right. It's not everyone gets kind bars or blue talkies. It's give us, give me the option so I can choose what I think is right, which is goes right along with technology.

00:38:00
And for me, hearing that piece about them thinking about having a driver's license, that to me was feedback about the experiential, authentic process of creating a podcast to do the work they needed to do right? It put them in the driver's seat. No pun intended. And it allowed for that student voice, student directed. They were fully thinking about themselves, right in a in a positive way and a vision for themselves to be heard in what they're reaching for.

00:38:32
So they felt very heard.

00:38:34
Actually, I love that so much. Is it out there someplace like is? Can we listen to it? Is it or is it? It's a really an audio file that's not shared on the Internet so their parents can hear it and whoever they want in the reveal.

00:38:45
Gotcha.

00:38:46
Yeah, it it was not. It was offered that it could be published and both of them declined for that to that, but they were willing to broadcast it in the, you know, in the classroom to the people invited.

00:39:00
Love it. Love it. Love it. All right. You mentioned you made reference.

00:39:04
I mean, so you you made reference to Google Docs as a piece of technology. You do work with Mass Q. You and I were at the International Society for Technology and Education conference. How do you use technology to help with all the endeavors you just described?

00:39:19
So many different ways, right? So the Google Docs is helpful. The Google Drive for organizing everything. For recording that particular podcast, I used a website called The Bokaroo because it was what it was available at the time to me.

00:39:33
Free No Sign in.

00:39:35
Right, exactly. Free data privacy is not a problem. So I yeah, I I used utilized that. You know, I've recently learned of an upcoming feature through Adobe for podcasting that's going to be pretty mind blowing.

00:39:54
Where it does the editing for you. Is that what you're talking about?

00:39:59
It's just I can't talk too much about what the features are, but just.

00:40:02
Oh, it's like you signed an NDA, like, you know, stuff. OK. Yeah, Yeah. Yeah.

00:40:06
But you can Google it and and there is what the information that is public is there to be googled, but it it's pretty game changing. It's pretty like awesome. You're going to love it.

00:40:19
I know Adobe, I mean we are not sponsored by any particular company, but I feel like Adobe is rocking the house right now when it comes to the AI stuff. Like I've been doing a lot of playing with text to image and when I go to Mid Journey or Blue Willow or Dolly and then I go to Adobe Firefly, Adobe Firefly just seems to be like wow, you're so much. It's the the in any of these sort of tools you get 4 images right? You type in something what you want a Unicorn with blah blah blah or whatever The thing is right? I also find so so the quality he seems to be better with Adobe and I'll say more inclusive.

00:41:01
Like you type in a person, you get 4 different types of people from different backgrounds. It doesn't look like 4 white guys do, you know?

00:41:07
What exactly? Yeah, there's a lot of thought about that. And and being, you know, representative of all people that goes into the work being done there and lots of good stuff happening with AI, I'm super excited for what's coming with Adobe Express. You know, it sounds like you've delved into Firefly. Adobe Express is another, another thing to really like look into.

00:41:30
There's there's a few different new things coming down the Pike that are just right in the wheelhouse of what we do.

00:41:37
Excellent. That's so.

00:41:38
Exciting, yeah. And as far as like the board game, you know, I give the kids opportunities to make choices. Do you want this to be a board game? Do you want there to be it to be a board game with just, you know, just a board? Do you want it to be a board game with a board and cards and dice and a spinner?

00:41:56
So the students I've worked with, they've done it like everything. They have used technology, used Google Drawings to create currency to use within board gameplay. We've used Google Slides to create what is 3 by 3 biographies of the game designers, so visual representation of who they are.

00:42:20
That Yeah. Credit for your work.

00:42:23
Right and.

00:42:26
That's foundational skills for interviewing later and building resumes, yeah.

00:42:29
Exactly. If who are you? And you know what's representing what's important to you? And, you know, sometimes it's not always easy for some students to write that out in text, but to identify a symbol or an image that can reflect that and then guide the verbal explanation. So good, right?

00:42:50
Like an elevator pitch to describe yourself.

00:42:53
Well, and also thinking through what do I want to share out to the wide world, right. And what do I want to keep for me, you know, kind of like you were saying with the podcast, let's just keep that in house. We're going to share it, but we're going to share with a with a closed audience. And as we get better and prepare, maybe then somewhere down the line we'll have a, a, a, a grander release of some of our next thing, right? Like iterative design right?

00:43:17
Yes, exactly. And you know, there's so many pieces of technology that are available out there. I mean, there are platforms that the students are familiar with within their classroom. So I try to also utilize those things like gim kit. Kahoot is another one, and I would say also one that's specific to the speech and language realm is like the everyday speech platform, which offers a lot of video modelling opportunities, which is not always easy to find in other places, you know, in a way that's super easily accessible.

00:43:55
When I last saw you at the we saw each other at the ISTI conference and I said it was the Dungeons and Dragons session. That is the, I think the last time I saw you. But that's not the first time I saw you at ISTI. We were both at the inclusive learning playground and you were doing sessions there. Can you tell us a little bit about like the sessions you do, either at that playground or beyond?

00:44:15
Like what are you presenting on?

00:44:17
Yes. So I presented on ways to make engaging in the the learning process more more inclusive and equitable for all students using visual tools, right. So often times we're building skills and strategies, you know, use and application and it's done in sort of purposeful, you know, sort of set up opportunities that you know, I work with my students sometimes in a pull out model, but a lot of times in an embedded model as well. So I'll push into the classroom, that's what I do more of the time I actually. But being there in the classroom, you don't always want to be using verbal messages to remind and suggest, right.

00:45:07
So like very small subtle visuals can be very highly effective nudges for our students to re to kind of call on what they've been working on in a particular you know, area and be able to put it into place in the moment, right. So I I kind of have like this toolbox of visuals that I create that align to the strategies and skills that we're trying to build and and develop. And I I leverage them and you know sometimes it's you know that they have them on a key chain themselves. They have it, you know, a sticker on a Chromebook or something taped to the top of their desk or it might be a particular targeted lesson. And I just come in and give them all something right at the beginning and it's just kept right there.

00:45:51
So I I spoke on on that topic of leverage, leveraging the visuals to support students skill and strategy, use and application. I can I?

00:46:00
Can I ask you a specific question about that and then come back to what else you're presenting on? Can you give us a quick example of one particular skill, a visual that matches that skill, how you implemented it, and how you created it?

00:46:14
Sure. OK. Let me think about that. That's.

00:46:18
Like, there's this kid this one time, and what he really needed was a reminder to or something like that.

00:46:23
Yes, I'm thinking that like highly functional. So in some classrooms there are students who have their hand up all the time or just are blurting because they do know the answer and they want to help and share it. And so we work on things like turn taking or we work on even different than turn taking becoming more aware of what it is to drive versus stop a conversation with whatever the contribution might be. So we call them drivers and stoppers. And so you know referencing everyday speech, they have a great curriculum and those are, that's the common language that they use.

00:47:05
And so within that platform there are visuals that are created that I will print out and I will laminate and I will sometimes modify to just again like that green car means good job, you drove the conversation with your contribution, right. And so sometimes it's a positive, like, great job.

00:47:24
Affirming.

00:47:25
Right. Just tapping on the desk or, you know, holding it up or whatever it might be. But if we're using a stopper, and maybe not the first time, but like the second time, you might be like like walk by just by the desk, just tap there and then. Yeah, that's right.

00:47:43
Yeah, so people can't get this audio podcast, so I'll create the visual Kim is putting her finger over her mouth, not in a like a shh way, but sort of like making a mustache with your finger under your nose. Or maybe a like a little? Over your But this sounds like a maybe you've worked in this in a very small amount of time outside the classroom. Hey, remember when I put my finger like this or when I touch my badge in a certain way or I tap my shoulder? My wife and I don't tell anyone.

00:48:13
OK. But my wife and I have like signals that we've agreed upon like when it's time to leave a party. We do that and they're like, OK, I'm done let's have time can we go now We do this thing so that like, so sort of the same sort of nonverbal cue. But we have this. I got you.

00:48:28
OK, I I I understand that. I I am going too far or too fast right now. I got to slow down.

00:48:34
Or something I have to like. I have to bring this conversation to a close because it's getting late, you know. Another example is in working with a student who tends to really enjoy speaking about very distant past memories that other classmates either don't know about or it's just generally unrelatable or maybe the other, you know, 6th or 7th grader. We created a visual roller coaster of child's lifeline memorable experiences and starting from the way way back to the now and then the encouragement was let's use topics from the now and we created a like a sort of like a sub visual of for that topic. What are some conversation starters that you could ask, and what are some drivers that you could then you know, continue with to evolve your conversation initiation successes with great age peers and lead to the student's overall goal of building his friendship circle and being able to socially invite another student to be part of game play or even something outside of school.

00:49:45
So building the steps through the visuals. And so in a, you know, social group, if, you know, I was hearing, you know, a a reminiscent memory from when a person was four years old, I might just sort of show the roller coaster and, oh, you know, let me get further along that ride and talk about something more recent.

00:50:09
Well, it just ties to their background knowledge too. That's so awesome. All right, so let me.

00:50:13
Ask, right? And it's fun. Like the roller coaster is fun. It's not being told like that's wrong. It's just continue the ride, get get to know and that brings more fun.

00:50:22
It will be more fun for you when you do that.

00:50:25
I mean, there's certainly an element of fun of everything you're talking about here, too. The podcasting, the board games. This seems like an underlying theme of our whole conversation. So what else are you presenting on?

00:50:36
Oh my goodness, what else am I presenting on? There's always.

00:50:39
I cut you off by accident. I cut you off.

00:50:41
And actually I I think a lot of the other presentation that I did is see had to do with basically like leveraging games and game development, visual, you know, visual organization of thinking and solving problems. I'm trying to think of what I'm I'm presenting at next. We have Mass Q, it's coming up, We have a fall conference in October at Gillette Stadium and I will be presenting there on a couple of different topics. One is using a tool called the Innovator's Compass, which you might have met Ella at. STD love that tool.

00:51:19
It is a wonderful tool, which is is basically, if I can summarize it quickly, it's a tool created by Ella Benner, It's The Innovator's Compass. You can find it at Innovator's compass.org. And it is a tool, a framework of questions to help anyone get unstuck from any challenge or situation or problem that needs to be solved. And it's just keeps people and humans at the center of the thinking and pushes us through sort of five questions of sort of, you know, who's involved, what's happening and why, what matters most, What are some ideas and what are some experiments or steps to try. It sounds so simple.

00:51:58
We all know their process is not simple, but I found it to be very helpful with students, you know, in working through social communication, breakdowns, challenges, even working through like challenges with even just work completion, things like that, like what's what's the barrier, what's in the way. And we've used the Innovator's Compass to support the deeper thinking of literature. So we might be reading a book together and in an ELA class. Mango Street is one example where we can then like take a look at and do a little character analysis and look at the story through a character's lens and maybe they're have facing a challenge and then think through that using the compass, right. Higher order thinking is sometimes challenging for students, and so it breaks that down into more manageable chunks.

00:52:48
This is. They're going to use that for the rest of their life. You know they.

00:52:51
They will and I have students who like use the compass in the world outside of the school walls, which I love hearing those stories because it's just super helpful. That's what we're here to to do. So that's one area that I'm presenting on. So again it's connects back to the visual thinking supporting of higher deeper thinking just through modified processes. And I'm also presenting on building a community through the use of basically like social club dynamics and photography and Co presenting with a a teacher that I work with at the Norton Middle School and so very excited to do that.

00:53:35
Tell me, tell us more.

00:53:37
So there is a a club at the middle school that students can join. And the teacher that I work with, her name is Tara Anderson. She's the club leader. And she basically teaches the kids how about photography And some of the, the the elements and pillars of, you know, taking pictures and really using them to communicate meaning talks a lot about perspective, you know, using grids to kind of capture different angles and convey different meaning that I could go on and on. And she makes it interactive.

00:54:12
There's usually scavenger hunts involved and and from my point of view I, you know I work on perspective as well. So perspective taking and taking pictures and then creating something different with it like so I sometimes will call it shadow meets doodle and I'll take a picture or something and then whatever the shadow is of of what the object of our attention is becomes something out of transform. So what we think we see into something different. And so it creates a space after school for kids to come together and build friendships. For some students, building friendships comes naturally and it's easy.

00:54:48
Or maybe they have clubs or sports that they do outside of school that just facilitate that. And for other students that's not the case. So it's been really wonderful to see what the provision of this particular club and what mine and Tara's shared love and creative minds around photography and visual thinking and doodling has been able to kind of bring to the students to experience and grow their own, you know, sense of community and interaction together.

00:55:18
Awesome. It sounds awesome. They're going to be great presentations. I wish I could be at Mass Q to go see them.

00:55:24
I know well we loved when you joined us at Mass QA few years ago. Now that was pre pandemic I think.

00:55:29
It was. It was. But oh, what a good time.

00:55:32
Even.

00:55:33
Though it was at Gillette Stadium and I'm a Buffalo Bills fan, it was awesome to be there.

00:55:39
It's yes, it's it. It does there. There is some football friendly rivalry conversations that do take place there as well.

00:55:51
Let me ask you this. So here we are at the time of this recording. It's summertime, and that often means intentional learning for educators. But just in general, let me ask you what's got you really excited? What's got you really curious?

00:56:05
What are you kind of wondering about in the world of education, speech, inclusion, whatever, whatever you want to talk about? What's sort of floating your boat recently?

00:56:13
I'm really excited to see where we can take all the possibilities and positive things of AI to support our students in their learning journey. I'm really excited for there to be access to positive press about about AI both for student benefit and teacher educator benefit. I feel that you know, again, like we are all learners, we are all tasking to the same common goal of working smarter, not harder, providing accessible, equitable entry points to the learning process. I think I said this before to someone else, like I just see more possibility with AI than I do. You know perils and it while new things can be a little scary and there will be hiccups and there are things that will need to be figured out or reworked and considered.

00:57:08
I think having a growth mindset and being willing to try even just as yourself first is, is really important. And there's some really good books out there right now that can help educators find a comfortable starting point. There's a book out by Mary Howard. There is a book out by Donnie Pierce, Donnie Piercey and they I for me personally those those books and I'm sure there are many other resources in in books as well. But they provided a very comfortable starting point for me to open the door and I'm I'm an early adopter.

00:57:49
I'm not afraid to try and take risks. But I'll tell you, my eyebrows were speculative. Like, how is this like, what's it going to be like? And as I experienced it, I I just couldn't literally couldn't close the the flood doors of possibility, which is awesome. So I'm really curious about AI.

00:58:08
I'm excited to see where we can take it. I'm excited to be part of of discovering what we can do with it.

00:58:18
Yeah, to be honest with you, everything you were saying through this entire presentation, because that AI conversation is now always in the back of my head. I'm like, I wonder how they could use AI to use to create the board games and to create the scripts for the podcast, then use that. It was, it was always kind of floating in the back of my head because it isn't. You mentioned how whatever's coming with Adobe is a game changer for podcasting. This is certainly a game changer for learning, and I'm with you.

00:58:46
It's totally optimistic. I get a little scared about people confusing school and learning like, well, it might influence school in ways that might mean we have to change how school is, you know, and change is often hard for people. So, but from a learning standpoint and the future that the kids were meant to help educate where they're going, it's going to be a part of their lives. So we can't just it's time to go get those books you were mentioning and say and and dig in. It's not going anywhere.

00:59:20
It's going to be here for a while.

00:59:21
That's what I I say and honestly I think it's going to become a a real significant design asset for us as educators in designing inclusive experiences, right. And taking all the pieces of universal design and being able to put it in one place and understanding that you know ChatGPT and AI, it's not one and done it can, it's a process and it's you get back from it what you ask it for and then it's up to you. It actually builds in opportunities for that reflective, iterative process that it is absent sometimes, unless it's intentionally baked into the design plan and process of a lesson. Often times the reflection is safe till the end, but with AI it can be throughout the entire thing.

01:00:13
Literally in the name, it says the word chat. And so when we were talking earlier about the kids learning to take turns, that's sort of the same idea when it comes to that particular tool. It's not just plugging in one thing and getting an answer, it's plugging in one thing and starting a conversation. And so you're going back and forth, right?

01:00:31
That's I never thought of it that way. But I love. I love that perspective and it's so true. It's a conversation with the technology, but also it's a conversation with yourself.

01:00:45
Totally, totally. You can Getting feedback from something that's not judging you, you know? Yeah.

01:00:52
Which I can think of so many students who need that to develop their confidence as communicators and learners.

01:01:01
Totally, totally. See we're we could go on this could be a whole other podcast talking about the opportunities the AAI. I'm glad, I I I'm glad that's what you said though because it's totally again in you and I as ships passing in the night. But you can just feel the energy of like we're aligned sure that was you're going to what? Because that's exactly what's on my mind, too.

01:01:20
Absolutely.

01:01:21
Well, let me ask, is there any kind of last things that you know, I oh Christy, you know what I should have told you about or something that we didn't really get to touch on that people need to know is there any last things to to mention everybody needs to know about this.

01:01:35
Let's see. Oh my goodness. Everybody needs to know. I think everybody needs to know. I think it is to keep that open growth mindset around AI, I think leading into this next school year.

01:01:52
And it's not to, you know, be redundant, but I I feel like it is, it is a concept itself and then it is also going to appear on the scene as integrated into all the things, the things new and all the things we've known. So things we've known will present to us with AI waving hello within the tool that we've used in a different way before because that will be important to hold place in a competitive marketplace for our developers. And so I think it's really important for everyone to keep in mind their own professional educator growth mindset and to hold space for possibility. And while I do appreciate and and at times do share some speculation and what's the word, speculation and concern for perils. I think that when that happens, we should return to ourselves and think about our own purse, our own design, and what we've created as the invitations to our students for learning.

01:03:02
And ask ourselves if we if we've left something out or made an oversight that would Createspace for misuse or unproductive use of AI. You know, just in what we've been, what we've invited students to do.

01:03:21
Love it. Love it. Kim, thank you so much for your time here on the podcast today. I really appreciate it. I can't wait to to see you again at the next conference.

01:03:30
Yes, I agree. I'm so excited to have been here this morning. Thank you for inviting me and you know, pushing my thinking with the questions and getting me thinking toward toward the future and and what I should be thinking about and doing next.

01:03:44
All right. See you later. Thank you.

01:03:46
You're welcome. Bye, bye.