Episode 297: Emma Fischer: Preparing for a New Career in Assistive Technology

This week, Chris interviews Emma Fischer, a special education teacher in Culpeper County, Virginia who supports students in an adapted curriculum program. She enjoys supporting her student’s use of robust AAC, and she wanted to ask Chris about next steps in moving to a career in assistive technology, including possible Master’s Degree options and possible job roles!

Before the interview, Chris and Rachel share an incredible Q&A session with a special guest who has a lot to say about on putting together a good presentation on coaching and AAC!

Key Ideas This Week:

🔑 If you want to transition into an assistive technology role, you may want to consider moving to another area of the country if a job opens up. Typically, there is limited turnover in most AT roles, and it is possible you could go get a Master’s Degree in Assistive Technology and not have a position open in your area.

🔑 Consider Educational Technology as an alternative to assistive technology. There are more Ed Tech jobs than assistive technology jobs overall, and as an educational technology coach you can support all students, including students who have learning needs but are not in special education.

🔑 School administrators can have a really big impact with students, especially if you come from a place of knowledge about AAC and inclusion. Many people say the issue with their admin is their admin’s mindset, not an issue related to mine. Having an admin that understands disability advocacy could be really good. Big trade off is you don’t get to work directly with students as much with.

🔑 There is an artificial line with assistive technology and educational technology where someone has to be in special education to get assistive technology in many cases. As an educational technology coach, you can work with all the students, including people in special education and students who have unidentified learning problems.

Transcript of the Episode

Please Note: This transcript was generated using speech recognition & AI tools; it may contain some grammatical and/or spelling errors.

00:00:08
Welcome to Talking To Tech. My name is Chris Bugaj, and I'm sitting here on a couch again with Rachel Madel. How's it going, Rachel? It's good, Chris. I'm doing great.

00:00:17
But it's not just you and me here. It's not. We have a special guest joining us today. So I'm going to invite this special guest to come join us. All right.

00:00:27
So as the guest enters, I think what we want to do is ask this guest some advice because we have our presentation tomorrow, we're doing our coaching talk and it's going to be a blast. But maybe there's some good advice. This guest, the guest that's about to join us, could, could, could give us. Let's see what this guest has to say. Hello there ChatGPT.

00:00:56
Rachel and I are presenting tomorrow at a conference. What advice would you give us for doing this presentation?

00:01:04
Hello, presenting at a conference is a great opportunity. Here are some tips to help you and Rachel make the most of it. One know your audience. Tailor your presentation to the interests and expertise level of your audience. This makes your talk more engaging and relevant.

00:01:21
2 Practice makes perfect Rehearse your presentation together to ensure smooth transitions and timing. This also helps in memorizing key points and reduces reliance on notes. 3 Clear and concise. Keep your message clear and to the point. Avoid overloading slides with text.

00:01:38
Four Engage with stories. Use stories or examples to illustrate your points. This makes your presentation more relatable and memorable. 5 Visuals Aid Use visuals like graphs, images, or videos to support your message. They should compliment, not dominate, your talk.

00:01:54
6 Check tech requirements. Make sure to test all tech equipment beforehand, including projectors, microphones, and laptops. 7 Body language Maintain good posture, make eye contact, and use gestures to emphasize points. This makes you appear confident and engaged. 8 Be prepared for questions.

00:02:13
Anticipate possible questions and prepare answers. This shows you're well versed in your topic. 9 Stay calm and positive. Nerves are normal. Take deep breaths, Stay positive and remember why you're there to share something valuable.

00:02:28
Ken, enjoy the experience. Remember, presenting is also a learning experience. Enjoy it and take the opportunity to network and learn from others. Good luck with your presentation. What topic will you and Rachel be presenting on?

00:02:42
We're going to be talking about coaching, specifically communication partners, and how they can become better at helping someone use an augmentative alternative communication device.

00:02:57
That's a fascinating and important topic when discussing coaching for communication partners in using augmentative and alternative communication AAC devices. Here are some key points you might consider, including one, understanding AAC devices. Start with the basics of AAC devices. Explain how they work and their importance in facilitating communication. Two, Role of communication partners emphasize the vital role partners play in the process.

00:03:25
They're not just assistants, but active participants in facilitating communication. Three, active listening skills highlight the importance of active listening. This involves being patient, giving the AAC user time to communicate, and acknowledging their efforts. 4 Customization and Adaptation. Discuss how AAC devices can be customized to fit the user's needs and how partners can assist in this process.

00:03:50
5 Encouraging Independence Stress the importance of encouraging independence in the AAC user communication. Partners should support, but not dominate the conversation 6. Modeling and Consistency Talk about the importance of modeling language and being consistent in the use of the AAC system to create a rich language learning environment. 7 Challenges and Solutions Address common challenges that communication partners might face and offer practical solutions or strategies 8 Real life examples. If possible, share success stories or case studies.

00:04:24
This makes the information more relatable and concrete. 9 Resources and Training Provide information on where to get further training and resources. 10 Interactive Element. If the format allows, include an interactive element where attendees can experience using an AAC device or engage in a related activity. Your presentation could make a significant impact on improving communication for AAC users.

00:04:49
Are there any specific areas within this topic that you're focusing on more?

00:04:55
Yes, we only have an hour, and we really, really, really like the idea of making it interactive. What ideas do you have to help us generate interactive experiences for participants?

00:05:10
An interactive element can greatly enhance your presentation on coaching for communication partners in AAC. Here are some ideas to consider. One role-playing have participants pair up and role play scenarios where one is the AAC user and the other the communication partner. This could involve navigating common communication situations or challenges. Two AAC device simulation.

00:05:34
If possible, provide a simulation of an AAC device, either through an app or a physical tool. Let participants experience what it's like to communicate using these devices. Three Problem solving Exercise. Present a few scenarios where communication difficulties might arise with AAC users. Ask groups to discuss and propose solutions or strategies 4.

00:05:55
Feedback Session After the role-playing or simulations, hold a feedback session. Encourage participants to share their experiences and what they learned about the challenges AAC users face 5 Group Discussion Facilitate a discussion on best practices and strategies for effective communication. Encourage sharing of experiences and insights among participants. Q&A with a A users If possible, invite AAC users to join your session. This provides first hand insight and allows participants to ask questions directly.

00:06:26
7 Interactive Quiz Create a fun quiz with questions about AAC devices, communication strategies and key points from your presentation. This can be a lively way to review and reinforce learning. Remember, the goal is to create empathy, understanding and practical skills in your audience. Which of these ideas resonate with you for your presentation?

00:06:49
I think we're going to stop right there.

00:06:52
Sure. Feel free to reach out if you have more questions later on. Good luck with your presentation. I hope it goes wonderfully for both you and Rachel. Have a great day.

00:07:02
So Chris, what's our interview about today?

00:07:04
So this is an interview with Emma Fischer, who had some questions about career advice in starting at starting an assisted technology or educational technology. And so we talk all through it together. Hey Rachel, guess what we're headed back to?

00:07:25
We've.

00:07:27
Been doing this now for a couple of years and it's always super fun time. It's a great experience and so this this is a whole what, a whole day together doing a pre conference.

00:07:36
I love our pre conference Chris. It's just like such an amazing group every single year and every single year it's totally different. I feel like it's never the same day twice and just full of tons of fun activities and lots of engaging conversations. And by the end of it, we're all like BFFS and it's so much fun.

00:07:55
So if you're interested in attending, check us out at atia.org, find the Pre conference link, find us & up and we'll see you there. Welcome to the Talking With Tech podcast. Today I'm here with Emma Fischer. Emma, am I saying your last name right?

00:08:18
You are.

00:08:19
Excellent. All right. So, Emma, you and I don't know each other very well and in fact, at all. Really. Right.

00:08:26
So why don't you tell people a little bit about who you are, tell me a little bit about who you are, what you do and what we're doing here today.

00:08:35
OK, so I am currently a special education teacher in Culpeper County. I teach self-contained students that are in the adopted curriculum program and I am interested in getting my master's degree. But I'm trying to figure out what exactly I want to get that in. And I was thinking just about my future and my career in the future and moving forward. And I've always loved assistive technology in the special education world, and I thought, hey, why not go down the assistive technology path?

00:09:09
So I'm just trying to figure out what I need to do to make a career out of that one day. So yeah.

00:09:17
What What has made LED you to liking assistive technology and considering it?

00:09:24
Well, I before I became a teacher in special education, I was actually a para educator, also in Culpeper County in self-contained classrooms. And all of my students use AAC devices. Most of them actually use lamp words for life. And it consistently just melts my heart whenever my students are able to finally say that one word that they've been struggling with for a whole year and they get so excited about it. And I'm just just to watch them grow in their communication has been amazing.

00:09:57
And the fact that assistive technology has come so far and been able to do that has just really it just makes me happy. I love it. I love it so much. So I think that's the biggest thing.

00:10:08
Even 10 years ago, I don't know that that 15 for sure there there was so many that would not have had that opportunity but because of the iPad and like you said applications like lamp Words for life. Now kids who would never would have had that opportunity now have that opportunity. Can I ask a little bit can I since this is a podcast about AAC and you seem to like about you like AT and you're using AAAC. What was your training and education like around learning about AAC and LAMP Words for Life in particular?

00:10:41
Well, I was very hands on actually when I started as a parent educator. This was six years ago now. I had no idea what I was doing. Never heard of AAC, never even heard of assistive technology. Didn't know anything about working with people with disabilities.

00:10:56
And I just happened to get very, very fortunate and worked with an amazing teacher that loves AAC. And she was a wonderful mentor and a wonderful person to work with And just working with her and observing her and just kind of copying a lot of the things that she was doing with students using AACI just kind of fell into it almost. And now, my first year teaching special education in my own classroom, my main goal was to give all my students AAC, because none of my students are verbal, they're all non speaking. So and now I've achieved that goal and my students are talking up a storm. I have to get them to be quiet sometimes, so it's pretty fun.

00:11:42
That's super exciting. So OK, so let me just summarize what I think I heard you say. It's a lot of your learning came from this mentorship that you had with that first teacher that you were working with that that person. See how the for me I'm I'm seeing how the ripple effect it's a great example of how you don't see how far the ripple effect really to go So and then you're I'm sure are inspiring other people paraprofessionals maybe in your classroom now that are learning about it who knows where their career will go and other people in your school maybe how's what what's the culture like around learning language with AAC in your in your school.

00:12:23
Well I've already this is my first year in this school right now but my sixth year in this county. So I'm I've already kind of become the the teacher that uses AAC and that knows AAC. So that's been pretty cool to be labeled as that person. And one of my parent educators, she's brand new. This year is never she was me six years ago never worked in this world before and just to watch how much she's grown and improved on using AAC and modeling with my students already has been amazing too.

00:12:57
So I mean, it's definitely, it's it's so cool. It's just so cool to watch my kids and my staff.

00:13:03
Besides that, the mentorship, is there any sort of classes you went to, books you've read, or is it really just you know or is it communities that you belong to on Instagram or Facebook or or beyond, you know, or their local communities? What are some other ways you have in the last Swarm? Like you said, six years and beyond kept up with AAC?

00:13:28
Well, so when I first started in Culpeper County as a paraeducator, I was still going to Lord Fairfax Community College, no idea what I wanted to do with my life. And I started to really fall in love with this population and I decided I'm going to get my degree in adopted curriculum. So I applied for Old Dominion University and they had the Adopter curriculum program. So I just studied online while I was working full time. And that's that's kind of how I kept up with it, just being in the classroom and then in my studies.

00:14:04
Gotcha. OK, so I see you're wearing an Old Dominion sweatshirt right now. I am an Old Dominion.

00:14:09
Yeah, it's a teacher work day, so I was very comfortable today.

00:14:13
Excellent, excellent. OK. So then, well, one of the reasons I sort of asked that is because the assistive technology community in particular, I always people who have listened to this podcast have heard me use this example before. But Emma, I think of it as there's my in in the school district that I work with and work in, there's my immediate family and then there's my extended family. There is no community out there that I know that is like the assisted technology community and that everyone's very willing to share their time and very generous with their time, very generous with their with their expertise and their experience.

00:14:52
And you can always there's no shortage of people that you can reach out to to to get information from or to just say I need some coaching on this. I need, I'm stuck. You know, can you help me, you know, reshape my thinking So it is definitely, yeah, I can, I can speak for the entire community that you are welcome with open arms.

00:15:12
Yes, yes, definitely.

00:15:14
You're thinking about going into assistive technology is a career choice. Like I want to study this when I go and get my master's degree. What other things are you considering? What are you wrestling with?

00:15:26
So for a little while I was wrestling with speech language pathology, but I was actually talking to my current mentor in my school and we were talking a little bit about just my master's degree and what I wanted it in. And I was talking a lot about speech. But then I was like, but I really just, I love the technology part of it, Like. And I just kind of went into more details about assistive technology and she was like, it really sounds like you like assistive technology. And I was like, I do, I love it.

00:15:55
I think it's the coolest thing in the world. And she was like, you know, you can make a career out of that. And I was like, what? That's so cool. So I just have kind of decided, why not, Why not try to go to school for that, learn more about it, and while I'm still teaching in in the classroom and maybe use what I'm learning in school in the future in my classroom.

00:16:17
And then eventually kind of moving out of the classroom and helping students in multiple classrooms with assistive technology instead of 1. So yeah, I guess I'm just trying to figure out what I need to do to get there one day.

00:16:32
OK. Let me ask you and if this is too personal, we'll cut it out. OK. So do you have flexibility in your career in geographically meaning because I think that's going to be part of I throw this into the hopper as things to consider is well, I might get this degree and now I have to find a job and if I'm stuck in Virginia that sort of limits, you know, my, my opportunities. So do you feel like the world's your oyster or you're like, Nah, you know what, Chris, I'm, I'm going to stay in Virginia.

00:17:06
You know, like my family's here. The roots are set. You know, where, where do you feel like that on that continuum?

00:17:12
I think Virginia might be my my place, my my home. I think it would depend on the opportunity that struck. I mean, maybe if there was a big opportunity in another state, I might consider it. But I think Virginia might be the main place that I'd like to stick with.

00:17:29
Gotcha. OK. And the reason I say that is, I mean, I'm familiar with a lot of places in Virginia because you know, I'm, I'm just in the northern part of Virginia here in Loudon County. In Loudon County, we have 9 assistive technology facilitators currently at the time of this recording. And then I'm the assistive technology specialist, So I'm the administrator that supports those nine people and that's pretty rare.

00:17:56
I know Fairfax, our neighboring county, they have entire assistive technology team. Montgomery County up in Maryland has two assistive technology teams and high incidents and low, low incidents. And then there's this. The rest of the state of Virginia has people do you know, like they don't have so and like you're sort of the the the, the, the energy that you're you're exuberating about assistive technology. It's rare that people leave it.

00:18:27
You know most people really like the job once they get into it, the turnover is not high. So what that means is the opportunity to get a job in there. Emma is it's you know it's something to consider like yeah OK I might spend a lot of time learning about this and putting money into this into my own education and then to go get a job in it the the opportunities you know especially if the the the the more rooted you are in one place. If I want to be in Culpeper County, well, OK, I what are the opportunities in Culpeper County for there to be a a new assistive technology gig Now that's instead certainly think times have changed and there have certainly been been places that have created assistive technology positions or start out as other duties as assigned and then they've evolved into assistive technology positions. So I, I I don't mean to dissuade you at all, but I think the reality is, is that if you're really considering that it should be a, it should be a big thing on your consideration list.

00:19:37
Yeah. No, absolutely. Yep. That's definitely good to know. Yeah.

00:19:40
It's definitely, it's very different from just the world that I'm in because there's a ton of turnover in the special education teaching world, unfortunately. So it's definitely, it's a really good thing to consider, yeah.

00:19:50
Yeah. What else? OK. So besides assistive technology, you said speech language pathology, is those are like your two things or is there anything else that's in the in the running?

00:20:01
Those have been my main too. Right now, in the last in the last year, it's been my main too. I haven't really had any other thoughts of anything else.

00:20:10
Besides AAC, what's some other technology that you that you geek out on?

00:20:15
You know, well AAC is my biggest one that I really geek out on also just, I mean using the the interactive boards that we have for the students, they love it. Using Boom Cards, board maker, things like that have been awesome with my students. Also using low tech things that we have in our classroom have been amazing. Like I I know a lot of my students get a kick out of using the slam boards a lot and they've been so funny with that. But yeah, I I yeah, I don't know.

00:20:55
Well, let me throw out some other options for you to consider. OK, so again, not to dissuade you at all, just to give you other options for you to to to banter around with you and your friends and your family about, you know, OK, here's some considerations. So one thing that I'd be considering might be thinking about the edtech. So in Culpepper, you probably have an IFT or a TIFT, you know what I mean? Like a technology facilitator.

00:21:24
Is that true? In your school, you have a technology person, right? So that person probably doesn't have the lens. I don't know who your person is, but probably doesn't have the lens of a thinking about students with disabilities 1st or using technology with students with disabilities. But man, they could, right?

00:21:42
Imagine you get getting a your your master's in educational technology, but with your background with disabilities. Now you go into any school you know. Now there's lots of jobs. Those jobs are also a lot. There's not a huge turnover rate for those either, but there's a lot more of those jobs where you could still be focusing on technology, still be focusing on students with disabilities, but you're just focusing on building more inclusive experiences using technology.

00:22:14
So imagine then now working with a fourth grade teacher on on, you know how we're going to do the the Virginia studies Sol. And hey, here's some cool technology you can use. An oh, by the way, you should be considering how your kids with dyslexia are going to engage in this content as well. Oh, by the way, what about the kids down in the autism program? How can we build that in so that they're not in that program?

00:22:39
The program is not a place, but a A, A. It's more pervasive across the school so that they can be in this inclusive setting. And what if we designed it with this in mind? What if we use these technologies so it's more sensory friendly and they're using their AAC across the district or I mean across the entire school? Like you could have a great impact on students with disabilities in an indirect way, if that makes sense.

00:23:07
No, I I love that. I love that. Yes, I love that. What? So if tomorrow I decided to apply for a job like that, what would the job title be like?

00:23:19
What would I need to be looking for?

00:23:21
Well, in Loudon we call them instructional facilitators for technology. So I think that's, but I think in other districts it's like technology facilitator or technology coach or something like that. So I know again this is very Virginia specific, but I mean talk to your technology person, your technology coach because that they could give you more insight about what their role is. But there's something very Virginia specific that I I was mentioning is the Visti conference will be coming up in December and the technology conference is coming up in April. So those are two different places.

00:24:04
One, if you ever could get get out to go to, you could really learn more. Is this something I really want like I can engage with more people about what those roles are, you know, but both those, those are two upcoming conferences. If you can get leave Vista is like on a weekend and it's in Roanoke. So I think the technology conference, it's coming up in April is in Richmond. So those are things to look into.

00:24:30
Visti, by the way, Visti stands for the Virginia Society for Technology and Education. And in the country, well, I guess in the world there's something called the International Society for Technology and Education and each state has a faction of that. Visti is the Virginia faction of the International Society, Technology and Education. So point being, there's a much larger world out there. You know, the old Star Wars reference to your first step in a larger world.

00:24:57
There's a much larger world of people sort of focusing on being, you know, how can technology reshape education? And then there's a smaller chunk of that is how can technology reshape education from for people with disabilities, You know, But what I think you're going to find, Emma, as you start to dig in there, is that actually a lot of the innovations that come in educational technology come from assistive technology. So man like text to speech. Well, who are the first people that have text to speech with people with disabilities, but now in text to speech do you have in your neck? Do you have Chromebooks in Culpepper?

00:25:37
Oh yeah.

00:25:38
And do you have read and write on those Chromebooks? Right. So, and it's probably a Tier 1 support that everybody has, right? So anyone can use it. I know a little bit about Culpepper.

00:25:48
I'm not that we're not that far away, right?

00:25:50
No, yeah.

00:25:53
And same thing with other Technet likes like voice dictation, right? Well, we're the first people, people with disabilities. But now voice dictation is built into your Google Docs. You probably use it on your phone all the time. So there is this sort of blossoming awareness that, you know what, what if we what if the edtech community looked at the special Ed community and the assistive technology community and said, wait, we should be working more closely together, you know, and draw inspiration from there.

00:26:22
So anyway, back to you and your specific game plan here. For a career, that's something I would spend some minutes on being like I don't know what I like being like, is it more technology in a little bit, You know, like could I could I see myself coaching other educators through how to use technology in general? Or is it really disability focused? And even if it was more disability focused, is there a way that I can really support people with disabilities so that they're not being segregated but they are being integrated into the rest of the the school, you know what I mean?

00:26:56
Yeah, I think I'll definitely do more research on the instructional facilitator and kind of see what that world's like and look a lot into look into this technology conference you said in Richmond, right.

00:27:07
The technology conference is coming up in April in Richmond. Yeah, I think registration is open now and then Visti is the one that's in December. That's a much larger conference. Visti's much larger and they're they always have like an inclusion strand. So I know that they're focusing on accessibility that's going to be one of the.

00:27:26
So there's there's opportunities in both of those places.

00:27:30
Perfect.

00:27:30
Yeah, but that's OK. So that's one thing to put in the hopper Ed tech. The next thing, let me ask you, what do you think about leadership? So becoming an administrator down the line, because again, that's another place where you could have such great impact on people with disabilities and the gender creating a culture as opposed to being a teacher. What are you?

00:27:54
What are your thoughts about that?

00:27:58
That thought has crossed my mind before. I've never really thought too much into it though. But yeah, I mean, I think that would be something that would be really neat because that way I would be able to help multiple, again, multiple classes instead of just one. I think that's the biggest thing is I just want to be able to help I guess a wider more of the population. Not just not.

00:28:22
I love my job, it's amazing, love my students, but I want to be able to help more people at all at once, if that makes sense.

00:28:30
Totally makes sense to me. I do a podcast. There's a team of four of us that put this podcast together, all volunteering our time, right? With a little support from Patreon. Thank you Patreon supporters.

00:28:39
But the point is we're not doing it to get rich. We're doing it because we want to have a larger reach for the for the knowledge to get further faster, right. So I totally empathize with and sympathize with what with what you're saying there. I totally get it. You know, so administration could have a really big impact.

00:29:00
I mean, I think if you were to get into either of these communities, one of the points of frustration is that my administrator just doesn't get it. You know, it's a mindset thing, not a money thing. And often, often times so here having an administrator that sort of understands special education, understands disability advocacy, man, could you have a big impact on that You know so that's another it's another Ave. that I would be thinking about the trade off there. You probably know what it what do you do, you know what I'm going to say the trade off is.

00:29:36
It's a lot of responsibility. I mean, yeah, it's definitely a lot.

00:29:41
The responsibility, I mean, yes, that is a big aspect of it, but you're working with kids. There's a big responsibility there too. The big trade off is that you're not working with kids directly. You know, I mean, my background is a Speech Language Pathologist. I like, I was in a classroom earlier today and the kid was spilling beads all over the place and man, we were having fun picking up these beads and bottling on his communication device and tossing him into a bucket and you know, laughing.

00:30:07
And I don't get that. I don't get to scratch that itch as much. I don't get to see the direct impact as much. It's it's second hand stories of how your work has impacted people. So and that is often that's what that's what keeps you going on a day-to-day basis, right.

00:30:25
Like you said, when at the beginning like Oh my gosh, I get such joy out of a hearing, the kids use their communication device, that will be the trade off for you. You might have a bigger impact with more kids but you won't have the direct impact for you on the day-to-day. Coming home on a Tuesday, rough day with my fellow administrators, but I got to see this kid say I'm having fun today on their AEC device and that smile on their face. So that's the trade off, you know?

00:30:51
Yeah, yeah.

00:30:55
It's It sounds like you already talked yourself out of speech. Language pathology doesn't sound like that's where you'd like to go.

00:31:02
Yeah, I just, I don't know because I know that you have to do the almost like student teaching but for speech language pathology. And I was thinking like, how am I going to have time to do that with teaching full time? Like I can't quit teaching. I still have to get paid. And yeah, I just, I don't, I don't know how I would be able to make that work.

00:31:24
Well, I wouldn't let the logistics get in the way it it. There's always you could figure it out, right? It really if you're following your passion, it's OK. What I like to do articulation therapy, because that's probably part of what I'm going to have to do. Is there other would I work with fluency?

00:31:40
Fluency is not that frequent, but it it's it's a part of what you do. It's your it'd be part of what you're learning too for those number of years that you're doing that voice, you know. So if you're not really driven by that, I could see. That said, it sounds like you're really driven by AAC and there's certainly people. Rachel Madel, Co host of this podcast, is a great example who doesn't exclusively work with AAC but mostly works with AAC.

00:32:06
So could build a whole career around working with people with AAC. So you could get even deeper and sort of specialized. But to get there, you're going to have to learn about a lot of other stuff, because it's not just the AAC speech language pathologist, it's the speech language pathologist, You.

00:32:21
Know right, Right. Exactly.

00:32:24
So what do you think? I mean now that I said that, does that change your mind at all or is it like sort of lean into one of these others?

00:32:31
I don't know. I think. I think the the instructional facilitator thing seems really, really neat, being able to help a wide population of students, not just with more severe disabilities, but also students that are in the general population but have dyslexia or maybe just is just really struggling on this little thing that they just can't get through and all they need is this one little thing to help them. I know when I was a student I really struggled in school and I appreciated the little things that people did for me to help me get through and I want to be able to do that for other students as well.

00:33:08
And that really screams to me the educational technology. And let me explain why. Assistive technology by definition is technology used by people with disabilities. OK, so there's this line that is a human created line of whether you have a disability or not, like you found eligible or not, right? But there's a large, large number of kids that would need the same technology whether it had that adjective in front of it of assistive or not, right?

00:33:40
Picture a kid, Let's say a kid who is not yet mastered the skill, all the skills that it takes to become a fluent reader. But they have been not diagnosed. They have yet to be diagnosed with dyslexia. Or maybe they're not diagnosed with dyslexia. Maybe they even participated in some assessments and found that they're not dyslexic, but yet they still have are working extra hard to figure out for themselves how to learn to read assistive technology.

00:34:13
Person. Yes, could give some input. Yes, would have some influence, but who is there more directly that's servicing all the kids would be that Ed Tech person. And but again, with that disability awareness going, you know what, When we're making purchases and we're thinking about technology purchases, you could be an influencer that is influencing the technology purchases going well, OK, how is this going to work for the autistic population? How is this going to work for kids who are blind?

00:34:42
Who? How is this going to work for kids that are have yet not yet mastered the art of reading? You know, the skill that it takes to become a fluent reader? And so having that lens from an educational technology standpoint could really again impact a lot of kids. Let me ask you this.

00:35:02
OK, so right now you're working with kids and you have your paraprofessionals, right? One of the aspects of assistive technology or educational technology or leadership, which I think are the big three that are coming out on the top for for you is not doing direct services with kids but instead doing consulting, which I mean by consulting is giving information to other educators. You know what you need is X or I'm going to tell you this is what you need versus coaching where I'm going to ask you, OK, tell me me, let's let's get you better at this skill so you can use these these technologies in place. How would you feel about your day-to-day be working with adults, consulting and coaching with them, as opposed to your day-to-day working directly with a kid?

00:35:56
I think I'd be OK with just working with the adults too. I know Susan Reed was the person I talked to before and she told me to reach out to you and she works a lot with the adults. I've talked to her several times, but she she does also get to see the kids and say hi. And there's been times where I remember when I was still a paraeducator that she would get to see them using their system technology and things like that. But it was it's always nice to get her input because a lot of what she says I'll use in my classroom and I've I've seen past teachers that I've worked with as a paraeducator use what she said in the classroom too, and it's had a huge impact.

00:36:36
It's been really helpful. So I think that would be great to be able to spread the knowledge I guess to others and still knowing that I'm helping the students.

00:36:47
So, Emma, the way I think of it is in percentage of time, right? As a teacher, you're probably somewhere in the ballpark of 80 to 90% of your time is spent doing direct intervention with a kid or direct teaching with a kid. You know, you might be a bit like actually it's more like 60 and then 30% is paperwork, right? But it's focused on the kid, right? And then focus on other adults and teaching them stuff is 10% or less, you know so, but when you switch to be this instructional technology coach or facilitator or an assistive technology facilitator, now it's 80 to 90% working with adults and 10% working with kids.

00:37:29
So again, you still get those those minutes and that could still be the the real, you know today I got to go and see kids and that that could carry you a long way. It certainly does for me like I did like the the shot in the arm had helped me today. We're working with kids throwing beads and buckets and modeling on their AEC devices with them. But so yeah, that's how I think of it is that it's, it's it's just a shift in how much time you're spending doing different things.

00:37:56
Yeah, yeah.

00:37:58
All right, well, so those are maybe some two options you hadn't considered before. What other questions do you have for me, or how has this conversation helped or not helped you with your next steps?

00:38:13
I know I think this conversation's been really helpful and I think I'm going to do some more research on these two things and I think I'm going to look into George Mason University and kind of figure out what degrees and paths I should take, so potentially move forward in one of these, so.

00:38:30
Yeah, well, let me say this to Emma because I think it needs to be said explicitly. George Mason. Great. Love those people, know them exceptionally well. Once Upon a time came a sliver of away from working for them.

00:38:45
And in fact, ages ago I actually was an adjunct press professor for George Mason. Long story short, you'll have a great experience there. One of the other things you should know, though, is that there aren't criteria for working in assistive technology. Meaning the facilitators that I work with, the nine I have, some of them have. I work with people that have a background in speech language pathology.

00:39:09
I work with people who have a background in occupational therapy. I have people who are I I work with people who are special Ed teachers, who are transition teachers that have switched over. There's there's multiple paths to get you to assistive technology without just getting a degree in assistive technology, right? Ed Tech, maybe it's a little bit different. That's why you'd want to look into it, which means, you know, you it it very well could be that Susan retires in a few years, you know, and you're like, oh, call pepper, you know, this is where I'm going to go work.

00:39:51
But oh man, Chris talked me into going to get Ed tech and now I really qualify for assistive technology. You do. Right. You you absolutely could. It'll be about the interview and working with kids with disabilities and not the piece of paper that you have.

00:40:06
You know, there are some states where certain like California comes to mind. Where? That's a little bit more restrictive, but since you said you weren't you, it didn't sound like you're moving to San Francisco. You know what I mean? Like, so I I think you could if you're looking at keeping your options open and being like, well, okay, what's what gives me most flexibility.

00:40:27
Ed tech might give you more flexibility than assistive tech. It might pigeonhole you less do you know, That said there might be stuff that you're learning about. You're like, I just don't care about this. You know what I mean? Like I really I'll give you those switches, man.

00:40:41
You're if you're an Ed tech you're not going to be learning about eye gaze. Do you know when you're with Cindy, George, George Mason, you're going to be learning about stuff called the set framework and you're going to be learning about you're going to be hands on with switches. And so there's going to be some minutes spent in different places that might excite you in different ways. You know, just know my whole point there is that when you go looking for a job, you could certainly get a job in assistive technology with different credentials that don't have assistive technology in your in your credentialing. That makes sense.

00:41:16
That's good to know. That is very good to know. Yeah, that was, that was definitely one of the things that I was wondering about was do I need to have these certain credentials or?

00:41:25
The master's degree was probably the credential, right? That's it. So having that master's degree is is definitely what you're after, And it sounds like you're on the right track there. Certainly I'm going to. I'm a perfect example of that.

00:41:36
I have no other certification besides my CS as a speech language pathologist. I belong to Visti, I belong to Isti. I pay dues for different organizations and things like that. But I have my state licensure, you know, as a speech language pathologist. But I did not go through.

00:41:55
I took a course through George Mason. You know, there's a certificate you can get on top of your masters. So you don't have to get a masters, isn't it you might like? You know what I I did get my masters in educational technology and maybe I'll go get my certificate in something else. Not not required but that those are other options that that you could be, could be looking at.

00:42:16
I'm certainly a great case for that.

00:42:18
Yeah, that. Those are really good to know. All right.

00:42:21
Awesome. All right, Emma, last thing before I let you go, let me or I mean, I'll stay as long as you want. If you have other questions for me, let me ask you if there's one little piece of technology out there or one little strategy that you use, a tip that the world should know about what jumps to your mind when I say that? What's like, oh, man, you know what, Chris? You know, we're kind of geeking out Ron recently in our classroom.

00:42:43
Or what is a strategy that I've learned that really seems to work for us is what jumps to your mind Oh.

00:42:50
Gosh, I mean, I guess the biggest thing, well, this is OK, this is more of a pet peeve that jumps out at me is when you're new into the special education world. I will know. I notice a lot of staff, like our students have iPads as their communication. A lot of staff will take the iPads away as punishment, and it's a big pet peeve of mine. I'm like, no, never take their iPad away.

00:43:19
That's like I say, reaching your hand on someone's throat and ripping out their voice. Don't ever do that. So that's, I think that's something that jumps out at me all the time, is a very big pet peeve of mine. Never take their technology away. It's their voice.

00:43:32
Love it. Great advice. What a great great advice for everyone to hear. Love it. All right, Emma, any other questions for me or anything?

00:43:39
Any any last reflections that you have?

00:43:42
No, this has been great. Thank you so much.

00:43:44
Did you get some stuff to think about?

00:43:46
I did. I definitely did did.

00:43:47
It make it worse or better?

00:43:49
No, I think it made it better 'cause.

00:43:52
They, you know, it would have been really easy. Like, yeah, you should definitely do it. And it's like, OK, so good. All right, well, don't be a stranger. Let me know what you decide.

00:44:00
Let me know how I can support you and say hi to Susan for me all.

00:44:03
Right. I will. Thank you so much.

00:44:05
Talk to you later, ammo.

00:44:06
Bye.

00:44:07
Bye.