Episode 285: Tiffanie Zaugg: Creating an AAC Facilitator’s Guide for a School District
This week, Chris interviews Tiffanie Zaugg, a PhD Graduate student and former AAC Coordinator for a school district in Iowa. Tiffanie shares about the “AAC Facilitator’s Guide” that she created in her former school district, a staff resource they could go to with descriptions of many of the concepts she was frequently describing to SLPs and teachers on a regular basis, e.g. core vocabulary, modeling, importance of having a light backup. Tiffanie shares about making this handbook, the SMART Partner strategy, her current work teaching pre-service teachers, and more!
Before the interview, Chris shares some ISTE takeaways with Rachel, including seeing more sessions where inclusion was embedded in the learning, going to an AI “Demo Slam” (i.e. demonstrations of tools), and a session about using role playing games (e.g., Dungeons & Dragons) to develop story telling skills!
Key ideas this week:
🔑 In a table top role playing game, the players must describe what they want to do, and the Dungeon Master has to describe what happens as a result. This activity works on a student’s narrative skills, imagination, descriptive skills, and problem solving - all in a format that is highly motivating for learners!
🔑 In her AAC Facilitators Guide, Tiffanie included the “SMART Partner Strategy,” which stands for: Stop interruptions; Model; Avoid asking excessive questions; be Responsive; & wait Time.
🔑 When teaching descriptive teaching, consider having students describe a common object (e.g. strawberries) in an AI text-to-picture generator and seeing if the AI makes a picture of that item!
🔑 Tiffanie’s AAC Facilitator’s Guide includes a Communication Partner Work book with a gesture dictionary. This gesture dictionary is a space to note the meaning of any gestures that are unique to that student that will travel with them as they progress in their education.
Links from this Episode:
D&D In Schools: Communal Storytelling in Classrooms by Matthew Winters and Dan Ryder - https://www.teacherwinters.net/istelive-2023/dndinclassrooms
Rewordify.com - Simplifies difficult English and more.
TextCompactor.com - Free online automatic text summarization.
Skybox by Blockade Labs: Free background/scene generator.
Transcript of the Episode
Please Note: This transcript was generated using speech recognition & AI tools; it may contain some grammatical and/or spelling errors.
00:00:08
Welcome to Talking with Tech. I'm your host, Rachel Madel, joined, as always, by Chris Bugaj. Hey, Chris.
00:00:12
Hey, Rachel. What's going on?
00:00:13
Not much. I'm excited. You have some things to share about.
00:00:17
Yeah, I teased this during a previous banter that over the summer, late June, I went to up to Philadelphia and I got to participate in the International Society for Technology and Education Conference. That is the organization that has published all three books that I've been a part of. I've done an accessibility course that is currently available in ISDE U. You know, sometimes we give that out as prizes when we do presentations. It's one of the one of the prize packs that you can get you know get something from Rachel store or go get this from the ISDE U that Chris put together. And so it's a great conference and I put together sort of a a top five list to share with you and our audience of of my 5. Favorite experiences or takeaways from ISTE 2023.
00:01:09
I'm so excited, Chris, My only regret is that you were in Philly. When I wasn't in Philly, I was so. I had so much FOMO when you were in Philly and I wasn't there.
00:01:18
Well, somewhere down the line you'll have to come to an ISTI conference because it's a different experience than going to a conference like an ATIA or Closing the Gap or even an Asha. I mean it's. I think it's. It rivals Asha in size, but it's in scope. It's completely different because it is all about educational technology and how to implement that. So of course it sort of encompasses what we do in speech and language and it's kind of touches everything, you know. So I was really excited to be there. I really love going there, and I really love talking to the different educators there.
00:01:52
Yeah, I feel like it's definitely on my bucket list. It looks like you always have a lot of fun there, and I'm always like, huh, Like it feels like something I need to put on my my bucket list. I also like the idea of talking to a broader audience because I feel like sometimes we kind of get very used to speaking to a very specific niche audience with AAC and speech language pathologists. And so being able to kind of broaden that I'm sure is really fun and also really important because we have this opportunity to share kind of more specifics about our specific area of expertise and broaden people's horizons.
00:02:30
So I've had a general strategy in my whole career when it comes to conferences and I continue to use it to this day. Is that when I go to an more Ed Tech conference, I talk about more, I'm going to call it Tier 3 sort of stuff. What I mean is kids with disabilities and how the the strategies we use to help kids with disabilities. Actually can be used for everybody. And then when I go to a more disability focus conference like ATIA or an Asha, I talk about more Ed techie sort of things that are used for the masses but could be applied to students with disabilities. And that strategy has worked really well for me. Something that I feel like has happened and that's my number, it's it's the first thing on my list it's call it #5, I'll do a countdown right is that's what I noticed at ISTI this year is that. That there was not that many sessions that were focused on inclusion and accessibility. However, those things were embedded in the sessions in other ways, which I actually think is much better. It's not a here's this, here's the segregated thing. You're going to go learn about inclusion and accessibility. Instead, it's embedded in two sessions just in general. There were more people talking about it. I saw it referenced in more descriptions. I saw it on slides. I saw it on posters and big display boards. It was certainly in session titles. It was, it was embedded in there. It was just certainly a presence this year at ISTI where more, it seems like more general Ed teachers are focused on inclusion and accessibility than ever before. And of course, that's really important to me. And I think the listeners are our podcast, because. What we're really working for with helping kids learn language with AAC and people learn to communicate with AAC is to be in a more inclusive experience, right? To help people design more inclusively.
00:04:34
I also think just generally having more people more comfortable with technology has really worked in our favor because I think one of the biggest roadblocks is like, I'm not a tech person. And so like, how often do people kind of say that to themselves? And maybe even some of our listeners who feel like not super confident with AAC, you know, we say like, oh, I'm not a tech person, but you know, it's kind of unavoidable in 2023 to not learn tech. It's everywhere.
00:05:03
Yeah, exactly. It's something when people say that I often throw in the growth mindset. I'm just not a tech person yet. But you are. Everyone is now. It's just how comfortable you are. And let's embrace it. You can become more comfortable. And certainly going to an ISTI is a great place to get more comfortable because you're surrounded by people that are talking about technology, talking about how it can be used for your own productivity, but then also to help influence the next generation of employees of of humans, you know? So let me tell you about #4.
00:05:35
Let's go.
00:05:36
Alright, number four starts with a D, ends with a D, and has an ampersand in the middle. It was a session all about Dungeons and Dragons.
00:05:45
Stop it. Where is your mind exploding and your heart turning into rainbows?
00:05:50
I was. I was loving it. Of course I was loving it. And of course you knew I was going to go to it. But here's how I even discovered it. Of course I I saw it in the when I was flipping through like, OK, what am I going to go to? But here's the actual long story. Many years ago, ISTI was in Chicago and I went to that conference. I mean, it had to be five or six years ago. And so I was at this conference and actually stayed with Mo Booty, who's been a guest on the Talking with Tech podcast in the past. And she's in the Chicago area and I stayed with her those years ago and she came to me to the with the, you know, to the, to the conference. Anyway, her and I went to an after party and I ran into this guy. Who I I ended up hanging out with all night like it was like a one of those things where we started a conversation and you know in the at the establishment that we were at at some you know Ed tech company had put together a you know an after party and we started chatting about gaming and about the the relationship to gaming to learning and how it is is sort of naturally inclusive because everybody plays games anyway. The name of this guy? His name is Matt. Winters from Utah and that was 5-6 years ago. Great time. Had a great night. And then left ISTI with like, hey Matt, we got to hang out or we got to you know collaborate somewhere in the future. But you know how those conversations go. You've been there, Rachel, where you talk to people and then you just don't. It just sort of that that was it was that was the night right. Well so I'm walking around ISTI and I like to go to if I can. I like to go to the poster sessions. There's often students presenting in poster sessions, and I liked it. Some of the most innovative stuff is often, and you're not committed to like a, like, you know, yeah, it's weird to walk out of a session. I mean, a lot of people feel comfortable doing that now. But still, you don't have to get up and leave in a session because you just kind of hang out, right? Anyway, there was some poster sessions and there's this guy sitting there and it he and I looked at each other again. We hadn't seen each other in six years. A pandemic had happened in between the last time he and I had seen each other and we sort of had that moment of recognition. I know you.
00:07:57
How do I know you? And then we had, Yeah, exactly that.
00:08:00
Rachel just pointed at me like, hey, it's a big smile, like, hey, I know.
00:08:04
You. And so he drifts over. He's like how do I know you? I'm like, no, how do I know you? And certain. Then we put the puzzle pieces together like, Oh my gosh, we had that amazing evening talking about gaming and and inclusion and how gaming is, you know just works for everybody and and all the different things we were doing about it. And he said. Oh, by the way. Come tomorrow, I've got a session on Dungeons and Dragons and I was like, what? I saw that session, that's you. Like I put didn't put it together until he mentioned it. So Fast forward. I'm in the session and actually sent out a message. So people from my school district were there and we used a tool called Group Me to have like private little dialogues like, hey, where are you? Where are you? Let's get together for lunch. That kind of stuff. What are you learning about? So I put out on the GroupMe. Hey everybody, come to this D&D session if you can, and certainly some of my Ed tech friends from my school district came to that session and we were all sitting at a table. But here's what I'm really getting at before people like turn off the podcast and you're like, Oh my gosh, Chris is talking about Dungeons and Dragons. Again, the style of what they did totally fits with how you and I like to present Rachel and how and to sessions I like to go to. We've said it many times on this podcast that we're not fans of Sit and get. There's. Plenty of different ways we can go and just sit in an experience, like watch a YouTube video or listen to a podcast. We like when we go to an in person event to be part of a conversation, to be part of an experience that people put together. And that's what Matt and his colleague Dan. And again, it's Dan. Ryder and Matt's winters are their names. They did a few minutes of talkie talk at the beginning kind of setting it up. Hey here's what you're going to do for the next hour. You're going to play Dungeons and Dragons.
00:09:46
Some of you have played some of you haven't. But what this is it's a the name of their session was Dungeons and Dragons in schools communal storytelling in classrooms really it's about storytelling and which is of course I know you would just talked about on the podcast how you did literacy intensives which storytelling is part of literacy. And so here's what's this is this. Making all sorts of connections. We're going to start with you guys actually playing a game. And so they walked us through how to do that. And then we were sitting at tables and sure enough, we played D&D. Now, of course I knew how to do it, so I helped coach other people around it. But there were funny people that had never played before and had this communal storytelling experience. And then the last 10 minutes was digesting okay. What kind of educational technology, what kind of pedagogical insights, what kind of inclusive? Insights could you gather from have from participating in this experience and then we just started riffing like that and people left one feeling like how they could have this how they could use it with their kids they could use it in. In fact I saw speech therapist in the session there was speech therapist at ISTI who foreshadowing I has have been on the podcast like I've recorded with them and they'll be in a future episode of the talking with tech podcast. So talking a little bit about that. How they could use it in therapy, How could they could use it in their classrooms, How could they use it in schools and how could they use it to bring people together. So it was just a super fun experience where it wasn't a sit and get. Here's how you're going to learn about Dungeons and Dragons.
00:11:23
We actually played and that's how we learn best when we're engaged and we're having fun. And it's creative and collaborative, like, exactly. Not just for adults, also for our kids. So, like, why are we not doing more of this? We need to be doing more of this.
00:11:38
Yes. Now let me tell you about #3. OK, And then maybe we'll have to stop there and I'll come back for a Part 2 at another banter. But the, the, the, my #3, and I guess they're not in any particular order. There's three on my list is that I went to a demo slam. Are you familiar with demo slams?
00:11:56
It sounds familiar, but refresh my memory.
00:11:59
OK, in case our listeners are not familiar with demo slams, essentially what it is, is you. Get a group of people. Either you've pre selected people or you invite people during the session to come up to the microphone. Bring a device if you didn't want to plug into a projector and you've got a set amount of minutes to slam down. Demonstration.
00:12:22
So this was a demo slam where they had preselected the people who are going to present they so they knew what they were going to present on and it was all around my two favorite new letters D&D.
00:12:39
Those are my old favorite 2 letters.
00:12:41
My new favorite 2 letters Your new favorite letters. Oh my God, Chris. I don't know A. I/O K0K 0K. Got it a I noted.
00:12:52
So here we are, an Ed tech conference in 2023. Of course, A I was the giant buzzword, and it was what everyone was talking about is how you're going to implement this and what what this session was about was people who have been implementing it. And or been trying to. And they came up and they slapped down, slammed down some demonstrations of a I tools. And there was one many of the tools I had seen before I had played with before. But there was one that I want to tell our listeners about. Because again, in context of storytelling, in making Tar Heel reader books, in making adapted stories, something that I think all of our listeners might really like, is a particular tool called Block Labs or Skybox.
00:13:39
With Block Labs are you Are you typing in and right now to see how it works, I'm like, really curious. I love when you share new tools with me. I'm like sky sky blocks.
00:13:48
Sky. It's called Sky Box by Block Labs. If you do Google search for that, you're going to see it's a free tool. I don't even know if you have to sign up for it. You might be able to just type a prompt right into it, but what it does is it. You can create an environment with it, so a desert scene, an outer space scene, a castle fantasy castle scene and it can even do a like 3D rendering of it. What I mean by that is like where you could put on virtual reality goggles and kind of look around that sort of space. You can be two D and you can still make it like a, you know, pseudo 3D where you can kind of move around like a video game, like moving through a 3D environment. Super cool for making background images, creating settings and inviting kids to discuss the settings. So when you are creating stories with kids, they can they can have background images.
00:14:46
Chris, I'm using this right now. Wow. Do you want me to share my screen?
00:14:51
Yeah. Let me see what you put together.
00:14:53
All right. So I just put in jungle with pretty flowers because that's what I wanted right now in my life.
00:15:01
That literally looks like your back porch.
00:15:02
It does. It does. It really does. But this is amazing. And you know what's interesting? Here's what I'm envisioning, Chris, because I use Canva a lot in my therapy and we make stories on Canva. How cool would it be to then download this and then upload it to Canva and put characters and all the things?
00:15:22
That's exactly what I'm talking about is this becomes your new background image for the story. So if whatever tool you're using, you take the screenshot, you plop it into Google Slides to Canva to to whatever Tar Heel reader, like I said, whatever you're going to be using. This is a tool that can help you create that. And so I was really blown away because I hadn't seen it before. And there's different options, right? You can have like many of these text to image generators. You can choose like if you want it to be. Artistic or fantasy or steampunk or something like different styles to it to fit again the preferences of the learner you're supporting.
00:16:04
I love this Chris. I'm literally like playing around with her right now. I'm not even paying attention to you on our podcast recording. Just kidding. But I'm excited. I'm going to be using this in therapy tomorrow.
00:16:15
So I have two other things on my list, but let's just tease those for next time we'll come back and we'll talk to them because we got to get to the interview today with Tiffanie Zaugg.
00:16:22
Who's Tiffanie?
00:16:23
Tiffanie is an educator that I met back in Iowa, worked in Iowa for many. I think she's recently relocated to Florida, but she's going to tell you all about that in the interview that you're about to hear right now.
00:16:44
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00:17:27
Welcome to the Talking With Tech podcast. My name is Chris Bouguet, and today I have the pleasure of talking to Tiffanie. Can you pronounce your last name for me? Because I have to tell you all the years we've known each other. I've seen it in emails, I've seen it in conferences, but I don't know that I've ever actually heard it spoken aloud. So how do you say your last name? Zaugg. Tiffanie. Zaugg. So like I said, Tiffanie, we you and I have known each other for many years now, but for those listening to the podcast that don't know know you, tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do.
00:18:00
So I am actually a PhD student currently at the University of Central Florida. Prior to that, I have been an Assistive Technology Coordinator at Prairie Lakes, A EA in Iowa. Along with being a special education teacher. I've cotaught, I've taught General Ed. I've worked for the department of Ed as their Assistive Technology AT team Lead. So that's me.
00:18:26
Back in Iowa.
00:18:26
You mean back in Iowa? Yes, now, Tiffanie.
00:18:30
You know what story I have to tell, right? You know, I have to tell so listeners many, many years ago before Tiffanie worked at Prairie Lakes Area Education Agency, right. I got that right. They were. They were hiring. And I was like peeking over the fence, like maybe, maybe the Bugajs are moving to Iowa. And I actually flew out to Iowa, Pocahontas, Iowa. My wife and I did. And we met with the people there. And it was such a wonderful community and really welcoming. And we drove all around Iowa thinking, is this are we moving like? I this I'm from Buffalo originally. My wife is from Boston originally we met down in Virginia but we were looking for you know potentially looking to to make a change. This was this great opportunity. Long story short, Tiffanie, we didn't take the job. It was offered the job, but didn't take it, mostly because it was so we we were about to start with having little kids and we are super far. That's. Very far away. It's a it's a multiday drive to get there from Boston, right where it's about an 8 or 9 hour drive to where we are now.
00:19:38
So long story short, we ended up not moving to Iowa, but the person who did get that job was well, actually, I came a couple people after you.
00:19:49
Really. I always thought it was you. Okay.
00:19:51
No. But it wasn't me. There was a couple of people in between. When you. Yeah, I can honestly tell you there are people in Iowa. We're just very disheartened, you know, Christopher Bugaj, Tiffanie Zaugg. I don't know.
00:20:08
Well, we would have made a great team if we could have been there at the same time, right? I mean clearly that's that's the case okay. So, so let's talk about why we're here today. Besides this, the history of how we how we are in Iowa. Let's talk about the AAC facilitators guide. So this is something you would created and reached out and shared with me and I was like you want to come on the podcast and talk about it. So let's talk all about it. What is the AAC Facilitators Guide?
00:20:35
So a little history. You know, COVID gave us a lot of time to think, right? And I'm thinking, why am I? Constantly going out and doing AAC evaluations for a lack of better terms and having the same issues over and over again. And those are issues being anything from transition, right? Like how are we transitioning our students to even from that have an A/C device when they have a pair of? When they have a teacher, when they have a substitute right, how do we, how are we creating or how can we support the adults in the classroom, not necessarily just the student, right. Because we know if the adults are supported that the students will also. So I thought, well, okay, I I sat over COVID and I'm like, now for the last 10 years. What are the big things that popped up over time? So I'm like, okay. I have, I have tools for this. I'm just kind of like here in this toolbox, I'll send this out for this person, that kind of thing. And I thought, well, you know what? Why don't I put together all of my tools in one toolbox? And I shouldn't say my tools. Obviously there's tools from lots of different people that are in this toolbox and send it out and just start to work with. Well, I always work with a speech language pathologist right when I do an AAC evaluation. And so I started by I went and met with the speech department. We did a training on the facilitators guide and it's a book form right. And it was just a a support to go with my companion book that is for the adults in the classroom and really starting with. The goal of AAC because sometimes I think we forget right? Especially that every student has a right to say something more than just I want, right.
00:22:47
It seems like that was such a an issue that that's all we focused on was as long as the student can say what they want, right and not there. And that's all we ever do. We never get to ask questions or make protests or.
00:23:03
And the fact that then we had behaviors, right, because they always got what they want. So just really focusing on what the purpose of communication was and then going into the functions, you know, obviously kind of what we talked about, there's more than just I want and. I need and then the whole concept of prerequisites for a C you know, they're always well I need to start with a Big Mac switch and once they can do that I'm going to move up to a Go talk 4 and it's like okay guys, we we can obviously move forward past that we know all the research behind that. So let's just. Say, OK, we're going to move on and everybody has the right to communicate and have lots of words available.
00:23:58
Tiffanie, let me just say there, you said the word obviously, but I think what you're saying is it wasn't obvious to them and you had to sort of point it out to and maybe this facilitator guide helped reinforce that, that, you know, we don't have to live in that old world anymore of those prerequisites.
00:24:13
Very much so. And actually when I first started, I think about even on the GO talks I had so many conversations with, it was all academic testing, right? Like the only words on the go talk would be red or blue or ball, something that as educators. And that that is my background, right? Like I'm a special education teacher. So you know, our whole purpose is we're going to assess, right. And I felt like that was the whole purpose of any of the students communication on these devices. And I'm like, now how would you like it if I talk to you and you could only tell me about assessment, right. So how do you get that mind shift change And that's where. Really taking resources. And it wasn't then. It wasn't just Tiffanie saying we need to do that. And that's why I liked taking things from the A/C coach and obviously you and all of the experts around AAC and putting it together. Because then it wasn't just Tiffanie saying here, here are the people and. And the reason I liked the why I picked so much of the AAC coach stuff is because she has it facilitated up, right. So she kind of has it spelled out what do these things mean? And so it it just went in tandem. So the the speech pathologist got to hear all of that. They walked away with a guide right of here's the tools that then they could go and have conversations back with a special Ed teacher, the paras that will.
00:25:55
Facilitate the the companion guide Let me let me make sure I understand that Tiffanie. So the speech therapist would hear from you through this professional learning experience and then they leave with the tangible printed guide where they're hearing from. This is sort of a a, a, a collaborative culmination of other people's work. See, like, see, it's not just me with that old expression. You can't be a prophet in your own land. See it's everyone around the country and maybe the world is saying is saying this and then they left with this tangible paper based laminated black. What's the the bound right, spiral bound. But when I say spiral, I mean like handmade you use the spiral bound, the thing that's in all the schools and and so they had something that they could dig into and bring back with is that. Am I summarizing that correctly?
00:26:56
That is correct. That is really what it is. They're spiral bound booklets that. Just, yeah, with all of the little information and it you know the difference between core and fringe and and all of those things and Tier 1 vocabulary versus Tier 2 versus Tier 3 and and the really thing I really liked about this is this speech language Pathologist can go back and then we actually anytime we had a AAC request. From our AT library, one of the companion then went out with it. So if I went out and did an AAC evaluation of the Speech Language Pathologist, I brought these with me. If there was a request, it would automatically went and then then as a team they could sit down and start to fill out this companion guide with the the language that goes along with it and the reasoning behind it, right? So, you know, why do we focus on why should everybody have core vocabulary, right? Why should we make sure that kids are getting their fringe words? And how do we get those every once in a while? Words? My joke is you brought about Pocahontas, right? And I always use that as an example for those kids that live in Pocahontas, You know, that's probably going to be a fringe word, right? But for the rest of the state of Iowa, it's probably only at Thanksgiving time, right? Like we're talking about Pocahontas at Thanksgiving, so. How do you make how do you give language and tear that vocabulary for the students So that is that part of it. And then of course the gesture dictionary. I do.
00:28:42
Oh, sorry, you have a let me let me ask you some questions about the guide and how you decided what kind of stuff went in there. But I is the gesture dictionary is another part of the guide, right. So let's talk about these, these different parts because there's a, there's a lot of information out in the world around a ECI mean, that's a good thing, right? It's still actually baffles me sometimes when I hear some speech therapists or educators talking like I don't know anything about a EC, it's like, well, where it's like, are you actively trying to avoid it? You know, like, are we playing dodgeball? Because it's. How could you not, how could it not have come across your path yet? That's that you don't know anything about AAC, you know? But I guess I'm also a little tainted because I live in this world, so it's all the time, right? Long story short, what I'm really getting at, Tiffanie, is there's lots of content out there and you have to decide what goes in a guide that is digestible, not overwhelming. Where do I start? So what did that seemed to be like to me when looking through the guide like, oh, there's some, like selections here, like this goes in, but I decided not to put this in. Can you walk us through your thought process about what made the cut? Because it was important and what, You know, like, Nah, I'm going to keep that out.
00:30:04
So yes, since there is a ton of information out there, I really went back and looked at the 10 years of AAC prior to this coming out and what were the big? Concerns. What were the big things that I constantly am providing information about, right? Or some of those myths that constantly need to be to be rearranged or rethought. And so that's where how I chose them, that those were the ones that I chose my favorite story about the gesture dictionary. This is why I put it in for like I don't care if you're a. You use sign language or however you communicate, right? Every I have a true belief that every team needs a gesture dictionary. And my story goes as I had a high school student who we had, we met with mom and we filled out the gesture dictionary and the teacher was talking about this one gesture that the student. Does she uses sign language but uses her own version of sign language, right? Like she's created her own gestures. And what the teacher thought was one gesture was so far off and so not appropriate for school that, you know, that's where those conversations happen, right? Like mom knew at home that this was something that. This high schooler shouldn't be doing in school, but the teacher was like, oh, this is funny and yeah, yeah, not the intent. So really thinking about our gestures and how we all interpret things differently, how we all have different as I'm moving my hands and talking, right, We all have gestures and how important that even though those gestures are. So it's really, it was really going through and saying okay these are. The big Nuggets at this point and knowing that I can always go back and fill in areas, but these are the ones that were, I would say were my big rocks that I constantly was talking and having conversations about.
00:32:11
Long story short, sorry, no, no, I think that's excellent. So the gesture dictionary is one part. I can also see something aligned with that might be scripted phrases that kids are saying, right? And what does that mean, Right. So there could be a phrase dictionary, but let's take a second Tiffanie and walk through. I get the guide. I have it in my hands. I flip the page one, page two, page three. What are some things people will see in the guide?
00:32:40
So I've kind of started going through that with you. As we've as we've been talking, we have our the goal of AAC and the communication functions, the prerequisites.
00:32:53
Your attitude, the lack, the lack of prerequisites, like you don't need any like that, yes.
00:32:58
Sorry, your attitude towards AAC is contagious, right? That piece. A lot of times I'll see like the. We've got to do this and I've actually walked into a middle school class Gen. Ed classroom and the Parasami and swore out loud in class in this Gen. Ed class because she's like I forgot you were coming today and the students device isn't charged and I'm like okay so how often is that are oh the speech language pathologist is coming or the AT person is coming let's take it off the shelf today you know those kind of things. So really getting in that part about your attitude. You towards it, and for a lack of better phrase, I might reference once in a while. It's like putting a duct tape on my mouth, right?
00:33:48
We can't be doing those things right, Right. Well, and it really changes the attitude from I have to do this to, oh, I get to do this, I get to teach kids language and this is a way that I can do it. And I think there that whole attitude. And I'm so when you showed it to me, I was so thrilled to see it in there is, the can be and maybe is the fundamental shift we need in education, where it's just in general, like, I got to go to school today, I got to go to work. There's this humdrum attitude in general, let alone special Ed. Like just in general in general Ed. It's like I got to go to that place today, man. What if we could flip that on its ear and use that as a measurement for how successful school is? Is if people were excited to be there, the employees and the. Learners that they support and language is such a great way to do that. A EC is such a great way to do that because we can do it in such a fun, engaging, wacky, weird be different way, you know, So it's all your attitude around it. Yeah, We get to play games and we get to teach language and we get to, oh, no, I knocked something over. There's water everywhere. And what a mess. I have to clean it up. Oh, not. It's what a mess. Oh, the water got knocked over again. You know, it can. And I also think, Tiffanie, who do you want to be? Right? Like, at the end of the day, do you want to be that person? Like, that's like, is it Friday yet, you know? Or are you like, yeah, it's Monday. Let's go. These kids are going to learn, you know, you want to keep that energy level up. And it's contagious. Just I love how you put it, the contagious attitude.
00:35:30
And when you talk about the one of the biggest things I saw is there be like well I don't know how to get from you know get through the pathways right of a device. So that is one of the things that's in here, a scripted pathway where you know as a. As I'm starting to learn a student's device, I can be writing the scripted pathways that are very common, right? And plus, how much does that help a substitute, right when you're sitting there and you're haven't seen a student before and you're like, I don't you know and of course we all know that it's okay to make mistakes and we need to model that right? But if you're constantly showing frustration, your attitude isn't going to be great and your frustration is going to throw show through to the kids, right?
00:36:18
So let me make sure I understand that. So the scripted pathway is like, here's some words and then this is the sequence of words. This is the sequence of buttons you would push to get to that word. And that's sort of what I'm hearing you say is decreases the intimidation factor for an A/C device because it's a model on an A/C device because it's a little cheat sheet. It's a hint for the person that's less comfortable.
00:36:43
Yes, that's very much it.
00:36:45
Over time, that can sort of drift away, right? It's a tool you use to get there, but maybe you don't live there forever because then that intimidation factor goes way down. You feel got more comfortable with it and then you're using the device with more fluency.
00:36:58
And the idea behind this is it's a transition companion partner book, right? So as the student goes from, you know, 4th grade to 5th grade, now the fifth grade staff can kind of go through it and be like, oh. This is how that works, Sir. This is the, this is the pathway. Oh, and maybe we shouldn't switch that button, right? Like just because it doesn't make sense to me. I had one teacher that was just. When they receive the students device, well that doesn't make sense there and that's done there. And I'm like, well, wait a minute here. We understand that it might be not the way we do it, but this is how the student understands it. So you know we're not. Besides, we don't all know about the mature placement and that's one thing I talk about, but it's not in here is you know, when we change. I can sit there with my phone, right? And I can just go with my fingers and not even look right because it's mature placement.
00:37:56
We've released our change the cognitive load of that and but yet we find it okay to do for students that have AAC, which it's not okay.
00:38:09
Right, right. So that that's probably if I were to go back and edit, I might find some stuff on.
00:38:16
That cognitive load in the motoric placement of things which is really LAMP right like LAMP really does a good job with well right. I mean LAMP is a great example but really it's any AAC it's just how complex the that that scripted path that you were talking about for any word you know something that to that situation because I have hear other people express frustration about that too where someone will want to change where the words are or because it doesn't make sense to me that it then therefore it must be you know wrong or broken and I need to fix it and it's okay. I'll say this here on the podcast and I'll say it to you, you know a couple thousand of my closest friends but I won't say it you know to them that there's a there's a certain level of arrogance there right? Like, do you recognize that people use these things all over the world, but you think that you know it better? You know, and just think how, like, what are the chances that the rest of the country, the rest of the world has got it wrong And you, you're the one who's got it right, you know? And that on top of that, I also use the analogy of a Sudoku puzzle. Right. So Sudoku, most people recognize that I can pull on their background. And I'll be like when you are doing a Sudoku puzzle and you're stuck, do you ever say, oh, those idiots that made the Sudoku puzzle, they must have printed it wrong, right. No one ever says that. You think, oh, there's something I'm not figuring out. I must have, the numbers aren't working out. I'll figure it out eventually. I would maybe even get some help. Well, AAC is much the same way. The people that have spent that these companies that have spent countless hours designing these applications and making micro adjustments and having hours of deliberations and putting thousands of dollars. What are the chances they printed it wrong, or that their app is wrong, right. That's not to say that we couldn't make adjustments and make it even better, but the chances are out-of-the-box, it's probably pretty good here in 2023 and you just need to learn it.
00:40:23
That's a great analogy, yes, very much so.
00:40:28
So what else is in the facilitator guide? So we have Core versus Fringe and then the tiered vocabulary and talking about Tear, let's talk about that Tiffanie, because that's a term that I'm familiar with, but I'm not sure that everybody uses that term. And clearly here on the podcast, if you've listened to any of the old episodes in the last couple years, when we talk about tears, often times I'm referencing it in relation to resources. In a classroom like a tier one, resource is something that's available to everyone, and tier 3 is something only individual kids might need or get. So how is that in relation to vocabulary? What do we mean by Tier 1, Tier 2 and Tier 3?
00:41:11
So when I was thinking, tiered. Yes, as you mentioned that tier all students, you know some students than a very minute student, you know very top of the tier. But also if I think about reading strategies or I'm talking about reading instruction, we talk about tiered vocabulary and reading right. So I can have this very basic word as a tier one that pretty much anybody can read. Right. And then I go up and the word gets harder as I go up to the tier. So if I think about a Tier 3 word photosynthesis, right, that's a tier 3 word. How many students are really going to necessarily need that on their A, A to C device, right. And So what are those fringe vocabulary, core vocabulary? What are some of those other tier one and two Tier 2 words that I could use to describe that tier three word? So I think a lot about I use the example for the Tier 3 is when as educators we have what do I want to say like holidays or it's a certain oh boy content. Just a certain, just a once in a month situation at school that I'm using these words that I'm never going to use again or if I do, it's going to be once in a very small amount of time. Kind of like I talked about Pocahontas, right? For some it's going to be a fringe word, while others. What words can I use? What are some of those lower tiered words? So when I talk about tier, I think about the tier vocabulary we use in reading and thinking about the reading vocabulary.
00:43:02
Gotcha. OK, that makes sense to me. I, you know Tiffanie, the other way I sort of picture this is I picture a giant circle and in the center of that circle there is a smaller circle and that's smaller, you know so they're concentric circles. But the smaller circle on the inside would be the Tier 1 words, the 350 core vocabulary which is still a lot of words but there's you know would that be tier one And then the tier 3. If I heard you just if I'm if I'm understanding how you're describing it right. Is that tier 3 would be way out on the fringes like way. So it's ultra fringy words. You know like you said we know we teach the word photosynthesis. But unless you're a botanist that is going to be using it every day or you know chances are that's not a word you're going to say it 30 times in your life. You know. So it's way, way out on that on the on that far edges of the circle. But there's a there's words in the middle between in the circles where some might be said more frequently than others. You know. So plants also fringy just not as fringy as photosynthesis. Right. Right. A little more closer to the circle in the middle but grow would probably be used more frequently than plants. So that is maybe on the edge of those 350 words that in that inner circle. That a way of thinking of it?
00:44:32
Yes. And I and then I talk about our the, the manual talks about descriptive teaching and how we can use descriptive teaching to teach those Tier 3 words just like you talked about, right, Like sun and green and plant and grow, right. I should be able to come up with that. The students probably talking about photosynthesis if they're starting to find those words, right. And how can we teach those descriptive words? To describe and what a better understanding, right? I think about how cool would it be to have your tag students take those words and put them down to Tier 1, Tier 2 words for the AAC user. Because if you think about that, that is really taking and seeing if they truly understand a word, right?
00:45:25
Tell me more. What's A tag student?
00:45:27
Oh, student that's talented and gifted or their receipt, you know, you're trying to, you're trying to extend their knowledge. But how can we take students that are have extended knowledge and bring it? You know, for everyone, right?
00:45:41
Describe this in a way that would make sense to anybody, right? Yes.
00:45:48
Because then you truly under you truly know if they understand it. Right. I think about it a lot. Like sometimes when I'm reading some of these educational journals and I'm like, you know what? I say what I just used words I can understand. But if I don't understand it, then I'm like, okay, just you assume that they know what they're talking about because they were using big words, right?
00:46:07
So I assume they know what they're talking about, but I really have no idea what they're talking about exactly. And you asked, did you ask the question like, are you writing this to like impress, like nine of your other friends who are going to understand it? Or are you writing it to like actually share knowledge with the world so the understanding grows?
00:46:25
Right, exactly.
00:46:27
So Tiffanie, I've been messing with a strategy around descriptive teaching. So let me just let's talk about for a second. So and this we, I put this in for Patrion supporters ages ago in the in the podcast for you know in our Patreon. But all the rage right now everything a lot of people are talking about is ChatGPT and AI is that happening in your world, right. And a tool that a lot of people have access to and that's free for educators is Canva, right. Where that the, you know, everybody knows it's a design creator, right, where you make all sorts of graphic design. It has a feature that a new feature that is text to image. So you type in some text and it produces an image. And I thought, well, what a great way to teach descriptive teaching is if I rather than say, you know, a plate of strawberries. What if I try to describe that plate of strawberries and then see if the image comes up in that certain way? You know what I mean? I feel like that's an opportunity there.
00:47:35
Yes, that is really neat and I just wrote a blog post that's talking about ChatGPT in the thing in aspect of reading supports right? Like being able to say hey, can you write a summary for me on ChatGPT? And oh, it gives me a summary of a grade level text. Right now I can look at the check text complexity with. With the text compactor, and if I need to summarize it some more, I'll wait rewordify to change the text complexity and the text compactor if I need it smaller. So you just think about how you can take grade level content, right? Because all students are going to have access to that and now we can take the same content in a copy and paste format really quickly. So. Sorry, that's a whole other conversation.
00:48:28
No. Well, I think it's a great tangent to go on because I think the other thing. So two thoughts there. One, what I'd love to do is marry that with the strategy of listening to text read out loud. So when I'm trying to decode, I can have the, the, the, the summarized version, but when I'm listening for all the rich vocabulary, I can listen to the longer version, right. So it's a it's a marriage of two strategies. And then the other thing I want to say about ChatGPT is I wonder if we took that article that we were talking about that only nine people understand and written in this really super techie Tier 3 language. Hey, Chachi BT, can you explain this to me? You know what I mean. If it doing wouldn't explain it to me like I was in 6th grade, you know, okay, now I understand it. I wonder if that's another application for that.
00:49:20
So I have played a little bit with that and sometimes I would get, I don't that ChatGPT doesn't have access to that article, so I'm assuming over time that's probably going to change. Or will it change when some of those are paid subscriptions?
00:49:36
Yeah, I bet. I bet. Great stuff. Great stuff. I love how we're brainstorming about future technologies. Back to the guide, though. Fears descriptive language. What else?
00:49:50
So we talked a little bit of already about the gesture dictionary. The next thing I have is salient feature dictionary and I said I actually remember this. I was sitting at closing the gap in a session on cortical visual impairments and AAC and they're talking about, oh, how we we need to describe the image. And I'm like, I haven't seen anybody do that. Like, I just see them point to the picture of something, and that's their modeling. Why aren't we teaching those images right? And you might be like, oh, Tiffanie, we've been doing that forever.
00:50:30
I don't know. I think it's really good to point it out.
00:50:34
Because well OK, so I use my the example of the green go arrow right, like the arrow is pointing to the right and it means go and it's green. Well, for some kids or. Is it all that's the circle? No. Turn is a green circle with arrows around it. Well, if I was, you know, I can't just assume that I am understanding that that means turn just because. So the salient feature dictionary is really something I borrowed from the world of CVI and said okay, we need to start describing some of those really abstract images. And in, let's be honest, there's a lot of core vocabulary words that are abstract images, right? So we need to, we need to be instructing, so let's how are we going to describe that and what is the definition? So it is just really simple and it's just their way to continue to build that vocabulary in that picture understanding instead of just. I osmosis of you pushing picture turn and I like oh and I and okay let's be honest if we talk about wait time and all of that right. If I have a student that takes a little longer, I've already maybe gone on to go and they think that go means turn and I've you know, so just the importance of making sure we're teaching the icons or the pictures instead of just.
00:52:09
Assuming that pointing to them equates learning them a great strategy I learned for that to really illustrate that to people during professional learning and maybe you do this in some of your professional learning is, is to hide the text. So and now guess what this is? I don't know. Is it, does it turn? Is it twist? Is it move? Is it rotate? I don't know. There's lots of different things that could be. Is it circle? Is it. I mean, there's lots of different and so then let's move on for the next image. What do you think this one means? And there's nine different words that it could be. It's like that's why we have to teach what the symbol is. And that's. And then your idea there that you said you borrowed from the CDI training is let's teach the salient feature of the features of that image makes so much sense to me.
00:52:57
So then we also talked about the scripted pathway that's the next part where the they the adult can go in and like it starts with what is the targeted out you know phrase home is the you know maybe the target where we want to go and it's I want to go home. Well how do I get those steps or through to get that whole message across. And then I have two other pieces that it's the smart partner strategies and. It's the smart partner strategies that are were put out in Iowa by Grantwood a EA and the Iowa Department of Ed. So it's not the smart partner strategies that people think they are, but they're pretty close stop interruptions, right? We needed modeling. Avoid excessive question answering, being responsive and then the wait time, right.
00:53:53
So just the importance of making sure we're thinking about those things when we are doing a C any type of language building, right, Tiffanie, let me just say I think having some sort of acronym like that really helps people get on the same page across a classroom and but then across a school, but then across a district or even a larger geographical area. Because now you're talking about, you're talking the same language, you're using the same jargon you can be. You know that you can reference that in your trainings, and I think that can really have a major impact on creating and sustaining a culture of building language with AAC.
00:54:45
I would agree. And these have the little visual so they're like little posters you can put up and things like that. So agreed that it and it just helps people think about those things and my favorite is obviously stop interruptions and I'd be the first one to be like, oh, Tiffanie, zip it because I, you know. I like to get out what's on my mind or I think I'm going to forget. Right.
00:55:14
So what was the A again? Because I think that might be my favorite. Avoid excessive question asking what was a again, what was a again, what was a again right. Like it's but you. I think that is something that can really move the needle in a big way too. Is if you if someone just observed and counted the number of questions you asked and you go okay, can you try and ask 25% less questions and make 15 or 25% more comments? Wow, Would that be a huge shift in how we model and how we interact with kids in general. But it seems to be especially true when we're in, when we're working with AAC and with specially true with special Ed. In general, special educators seem to do this at much greater frequency than when we're not special educators. But really, when we're engaging with somebody with a disability, adults tend to ask a lot more questions than just make these comments. So I feel like that is a very a needle that can be moved, something that we could quantify, something that could be someone's evaluation goal. Okay, here's my goal. Tiffanie is my supervisor. I want you to count and I want to get better at how I do more commenting and last asking.
00:56:33
Well, I I'm chuckling to myself because I am currently watching some videos, tagging videos and not for AAC use, but. I felt so bad because this the teacher was asked a question and then it was a little while later and she was getting ready to ask another question and the student raised his hand and she's like I haven't even asked the question yet and started like. Belittling the student. Right. Because he hadn't. She hadn't. And I'm like the student's probably answering the last question you asked like where's your wait time? Where's that? You know? So I just like okay. I know that's not the purpose of this. But I might have to point this out just because it's one of those. Yeah. I just felt bad for the student because that I think all of them are so interrelated to each other. Right. The wait time asking questions the. Interruptions. They're all so, you know, interrelated that if one falls apart, they're all going to kind of trickle, right.
00:57:41
Yes. And vice versa, if one improves, it's like, oh, you know what I did there? I jumped in and I asked a question. I didn't give enough wait time. I need to give more time, right. Like the when your mind shifts and you know that you're targeting these things because of the smart chart that is up in your room, then you're like, oh OK, the whole thing shifts from well, it shifts in a positive way.
00:58:09
Very much so. And then the last part of my document is the importance of having a light backup, right? So for the student whose device was not charged a light backup, where was that at? And then at the bottom also is a. We have a lot of students that are using iPads, right? And then they transition to the next teacher. Well, what was the, what was the Apple account or the tech person left and whose name is it in? When was it updated? All of what's the password? What's the guided access password? So all of those are under the light. So you can actually write in all of those things. So as that transitions that that person has that. Information because as much as they think that I could answer those questions, I'm not in every single district to be able to say, well this was the Apple account that was set up and you know, so it's just what are some of those easy, simple things that we can remember and put in in a tangible document that can be transitioned from student to student To be able to make the transition easier is really the. Purpose of my document here.
00:59:32
So Tiffanie, let me, let me make sure I understand that. So I, I was sort of picturing it when you first sent it and I was looking it over that it starts out and everybody has the same. But then what I'm hearing you say as you describe it is that, yeah, that's true. They kind of get the same thing, but then it becomes their own because they're adding to it. They're writing on it. They're, they're. They're give a, so there's one facilitator guide per AAC user is that?
01:00:03
Yes. So the facilitator guide is really the is really what I did for the speech language pathologist. So they could have conversations in districts. And then there's a communication Partners book that has and it's tabbed. So it has, you know, like all the big, Sorry, I can't really see it, but it's tabbed with all of the different areas in here. And then it gives you the opportunity to fill in all of the information as you go. So, for a lack of a better word, it's kind of like their A/C Bible as it transitions from adult to adult.
01:00:39
Gotcha. Okay that that makes sense to me. So the facilitator guide is the guide, but then the workbook, the communication partner workbook, that's what's really individualized per kid and that's where they get to. You can't be a prophet in your own land. See it's everyone around the country and maybe the world is saying is saying this and then they left with this tangible paper based laminated black. Let me ask you, when it transfers from, do you find? Yeah, that's pretty successful. Like, yeah, we've kind of into a culture now where people know that this follows the kid.
01:01:08
Or is that still a point of frustration it's so new so we you know we just that that's the hardest part I just rolled this out last year before I left so get keeping the momentum going my I ran this by my AT team at the time and that you know obviously my speech language pathologist gave me some feedback but of course they're no longer on the team either after I left. So just making sure, you know when I get back to Iowa and I swing by the office, I, you know might make comments about hey how's this going and the teachers that have used this last year, we're very excited and very even just for substitutes and all of those, you know when they had a new person come in because we also know that Paris have a tendency to transition or turn, have a high turnover, not only special Ed but our Paris seem to be a higher turnover. So how can we do this without having to constantly recreate the wheel? No. But it wasn't me. I didn't want to have to constantly go back and have the same conversations every year, right?
01:02:27
Tiffanie, is this something that is available to be shared or are we are we talking about like? Here's the idea. And now go create your own with the similar.
01:02:36
You know what's the so at Pray Lake State they are available at the print shop. However if I were to share this out I would want to make sure that like the AAC coach comes directly from her site, not just you know the downloaded version that I you know when I got it free that that downloaded. So just making sure that the people that are that material are cited in here are getting credit where credit is due because you know it really was a culmination of.
01:03:08
Right, right. Got it, got it. So for now in the wider world it's take sort of the same appendix that we just ran through. Use that to create your own and and run with it may make that make this happen in your own neck of the woods.
01:03:28
And again, I'm not. I'm not afraid to share right like here if you want this, but I will. Instead of giving you the access to the Google Drive that I have for the AAC coach, I would give you, you know, go here, get this type of.
01:03:46
You point them to Kate McLaughlin site and be like this is where this came from. Go talk to Kate if you want permission to use it.
01:03:52
That sort of thing, right? Right.
01:03:54
Yes, and that totally makes sense. That's how you get copyright as you go, and you talk to the people who hold the copyright. So yeah, great, great stuff. All right. Tiffanie, I always like to end the interview or conversations with what are you sort of questing after now? What are what's kind of on your mind? I heard you say ChatGPT and AI, but what else is sort of maybe that is it. What sort of what are you questing after?
01:04:18
Well, lots of different things. My advisor for my doctor. It would like me to narrow down a little bit more but I really I really want to see special educators especially teachers taking more ownership in AAC and AT altogether I think sometimes I know we keep saying that we want to you know get away from the expert model and all of those things. However we still struggle getting teachers right to the table, well not necessarily to the table but to the trainings to the to the that information even in the preservice world. So my role through here I'm actually teaching assistive technology to pre service teachers. So I'm excited about that. I'm working on a possible grant proposal for using a I and algebra and assistive tech. That's kind of I'm. You can probably imagine thinking about ChatGPT, and some of those possibilities. But I want there to be discourse, right? I don't want it to be like photo math. I take a picture of the assignment and it just gives me the, you know, like steps of the answers. I want there to be that discourse, that feedback. So working on that and just like the ChatGPT and ways to get that out there and you know understanding it's not cheating. Let's let's look at this let's you know let's see how we can take the current technologies and embrace them and guide that conversation versus be fearful and and shut them down. I, I the inclusive classroom conference, I did a presentation on innovative tech and we talked about ChatGPT and one of them's like well it's it's we don't have it in our school because of eight you know, the 18 years and older to use it and it's like okay. So you mean to tell me you know let's talk about Grammarly. You know, you know, like we know that there's code you know breaking of those codes right. And that kids are going to use it. So let's find it and embrace it and know the best way to use it. So that's kind of where.
01:06:53
Let's teach it because they're growing up with it, right? And so if we don't teach it, they won't know how to use it appropriately and it will run into all sorts of problems. But if we spend some minutes actually helping them learn how to use it. Then then they'll have some strategies around it, right? And maybe when the next new awesome tech comes out, they'll have a They won't have a fear of it. They'll have a way to go. Yeah, I know how to learn anything, so I'll learn this too.
01:07:18
So have you checked out the GPT four? Have you seen the new?
01:07:22
Well, let's see. At the date of this recording, it's like 3 days old, right? Like it just came out, you know? And so I yes, I did. I went over but I didn't. I haven't plopped down my 20 bucks a month to to join ChatGPT Plus yet do you know what I mean? So I have not tried it yet. I've only watched the the video I did I did this is kind of funny Tiffanie because I was texting some some other of my friends that are interested in it and I watched the video around chat G PT4 and I was like okay, there's a there's a guy using like a three ring notebook writing on paper you know and and I noticed some other just real. Like, oh that they were talking about how they're integrating with Microsoft, but they all have Apple laptops on their computer and it's like those are interesting points that that I don't know, they're just I found interesting. So have you played with it? Did you plop down your money and you start?
01:08:16
No, I haven't popped down the money yet. I keep reading and articles that are coming through. You know about people's interpretations of them and and I'm curious to see how I know that it didn't get put in. But the the text to video is something that they're trying to work for in the future and I'm I'm really curious as to to what that's going to do and what's that going to look like because you know, obviously the text to picture.
01:08:48
Yeah, I use Texas Picture a lot in some hobbies that I do and I'm a big Dungeons and Dragons player. So I'm like, I need a silver dragon that does blah blah blah, right? And so I go and I play with it and and I what I've learned with that is there's a skill involved in being getting better at asking at the right prompts, right? And so I would imagine the same thing's going to happen when it goes text to video. And I know that there are some tools that already do that. Like there's something called. Synesthesia, have you ever, have you seen that? So what that is, is it creates this sort of very human like avatar, I guess that you can choose what your avatar looks like, but then you type in your script and this avatar talks and it looks like a human, you know, like just saying your words that you typed in. And in some cases, I think it's so good you wouldn't know that it's a I, you know, like. So that's just one tool that I know about and that's a different one because this there's a whole suite of AI tools that are doing this. So it is super exciting, you know the the time and I wonder a year from now, two years from now where this will really take us.
01:09:56
So have you checked out the there's an AI for that?
01:10:01
No, no.
01:10:02
There's a website called. There's an AI for that and it gives all sorts of different AI tools and what it's for. So it yeah, you'll have to give that a a check.
01:10:11
Oh, absolutely. That's. I'm going to go check it right after this interview. All right. Well, Tiffanie, this was super, super fun and engaging and thank you so much. I think you've got a great resource here that people can a framework they could follow to create their own A/C facilitator guide. So thank you for sharing.
01:10:29
Thanks for having me. Always a pleasure.
01:10:31
Best luck with the doctorate.
01:10:33
Thank you.